Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Solid State Talk all about solid state amplification.

Improving Braun LV1020
Improving Braun LV1020
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th December 2018, 06:59 PM   #1
Pashka is offline Pashka  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Philadelphia
Default Improving Braun LV1020

Big thanks to everyone who shared their knowledge about condensers. This is a very productive forum for helping and developing hobbies. I know there are many professional professionals and very strong fans with a lot of experience and they will not disregard me. I read almost everything, but I still have a question.
I have a very successful stereo system with a unique sound,
Tri- amp power amplifiers in an active Braun LV1020 speakers that I want to recap and improve .
Each amplifier has a low, mid, high pass filter. and each power amplifier has a separate power supply.
The original power circuit has one transformer and two AC voltage outputs to the LF, MF amplifier, and the other winding feeds the HF amplifier. I want to add a transformer so that each amplifier has its own power supply.

Different capacitors have different voices, some are ideal on HF, but they have problems with bass, others sing well in the middle and so on. In the version with three amps, it is possible to select specific capacitors for each frequency, for bass, midrange, and treble.
If you had such an opportunity to put your separate capacitors on each dividing frequency amp , which one would you choose of capacitors ?
Can you tell me from your experience which capacitors you would put in each individual PS for 3 amps LF, MF, HF ?
What kind of capacitors would be good for the signal of the LF, MF, HF amplifier ?


Brown LV 1020 has a very good voice, natural sound, separation of instruments and it is difficult to find amplified speakers to sound so good.
I specifically went to go High End salons to listen high class equipment so that I can compare what I have and how it sounds for big money. All I heard was not impressed, the difference in cost was 100 times more.

If someone is interested in the schematic and detailed documentation of the Brown amplifiers, I can share it.


I listen to different music, different styles through the DAC Antolpa Zadiak . In the future I will play vinyl.
If someone wants to listen how sounds of the Braun LV1020, welcome, I am in Philadelphia.

Sorry if I'm writing something wrong , my english not so good .
Thanks
Attached Images
File Type: jpg schematic LV1020.jpg (976.4 KB, 829 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2018, 03:31 PM   #2
sumotan is offline sumotan  Indonesia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
My 2 cents. You should never use 1 type or brand of cap on any circuit.
You should always mix to get the best sound but this means lots of testing cause example A cap may sound very good in one location but the minute you use it on another location it may not sound that good. Yes the engineers or circuit experts here will frown at my comments but Im not bothered by it cause I know what Im saying simply because I tweak & test all the time. This is where I discover & learn the pros & cons.

Cheers
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2018, 05:17 PM   #3
stellarelephant is offline stellarelephant  United States
diyAudio Member
 
stellarelephant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Western NC
You will get many different opinions, and your best bet will be to audition a few different varieties. I have no idea how your system sounds or how you'd like to tune it with your cap choices, but just shooting from the hip, I generally think that Silmic II is great on bass, while Cerafines and Nichicon KZ (or FG and KA If you need higher values) have more midrange presence. And hmmm for treble, gosh you'll want to try a few, as I think it will be hugely dependent on the brightness of your system, but perhaps try FG and Silmic again, along with Panasonic FC, and lately I'm impressed with Chemicon KYB. You may even want to try a PP bypass cap in the treble amp to see if you hear a difference. Let us know what you come up with.

Last edited by stellarelephant; 9th December 2018 at 05:19 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2018, 08:00 PM   #4
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
diyAudio Moderator
 
anatech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Georgetown, On
Improving Braun LV1020
Okay, an unpopular opinion follows ..

Any good quality capacitor in the signal path will sound great compared to the cheap stuff and tantalum or ceramic capacitors. Relax and use any good industrial brand you can get from the proper distribution network. For over 40 years I've listened to and measured amplifier performance (and signal stages). I have yet to confirm any advice given so far about specific capacitor brands. But if it makes you happy, go for it.

Don't obsess about not having the capacitor du jour. There are lots of ways to improve performance, but they require training to implement properly.

-Chris
__________________
"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should" © my Wife
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2018, 09:57 PM   #5
Pashka is offline Pashka  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Philadelphia
Hi sumotan, here you are. I read a lot and wrote down what you said and others about capacitors . Anyone use or tried for PS , United Chemi-Con U32D Series capacitor ? The characteristics are very good at 18K uf 100v with high current A . How good will it be for a LF amplifier for bass in PS? Same capacitors for audio PS look very nice on the outside, but either there are no complete characteristics or they are weak from which you can hear different reviews of the owners about the same capacitor.

Another interesting thing, the sound depends on the material from which the dielectric is made. In fact, the dielectric stores electricity, sometimes the characteristic of capacitor is good, and the dielectric itself is bad (synthetic) because of this there can be problems in the sound. Do you know what kind of capacitor on the power supply will give good high frequencies with PS for HF amplifier ? I have an HF amplifier capacitor 63v 3300uf .

Quote:
Originally Posted by stellarelephant View Post
You will get many different opinions, and your best bet will be to audition a few different varieties. I have no idea how your system sounds or how you'd like to tune it with your cap choices, but just shooting from the hip, I generally think that Silmic II is great on bass, while Cerafines and Nichicon KZ (or FG and KA If you need higher values) have more midrange presence. And hmmm for treble, gosh you'll want to try a few, as I think it will be hugely dependent on the brightness of your system, but perhaps try FG and Silmic again, along with Panasonic FC, and lately I'm impressed with Chemicon KYB. You may even want to try a PP bypass cap in the treble amp to see if you hear a difference. Let us know what you come up with.
Thanks a lot . I'm copy this text like other good information about capacitors for my DIY project .

For silmic II i have a lot of different story from forum, I never try this caps like and different ones , just started . For example from different owners Silmic II: I don't want Hi-Fi soft like woofer bass on 50-60hz . I need truly detailed massive bass from 20hz with all vibration on like on records . I save text what people review from own experience: A number of other people here have said that Silmics sound "slow" or "blur detail." I can only imagine that perhaps they weren't run long enough. Silmics, after qbout 80-100 hours to burn in, present the most natural mid-to-high range of any 'lytic (to my ear). That said, they still don't have as tight a bass as the Cerafines (or Nichicon KG).
/////////// If your build only has one position for the output caps, try and find a way to parallel the Cerafine and Silmic II. I find the Silmics have very lifelike timbral texture, but are otherwise a little too warm and lacking in detail. The Cerafines are crisp and detailed, similar to Black Gates, with good texture in a different range than the Silmics - also a very tight soundstage and cool overall sound. The two types together really balance each other out nicely.
//////// I'm not a big fan of Silmic 2, they sound a bit too soft and cuddly. Nichicon FW sound much more neutral to my ears. Nichicon KZ sound quite similar to a film caps, but that can be a bad thing because they sound too bright In the upper midrange In two of my amps and one of my dacs (As do all film caps I've tried).

My active speakers , my stereo system very open sound , no compression in sound, like flat modern sound , a lot of air , all instruments separate and natural , very good natural controlled bass . 20-20000hz at any volume low and high there is a good natural sound and bass, , but there is a bump between 100 and 200 Hz (maybe room problems or not enough power for the bass amplifier ???)it was build for 50hz AC . I would like to push the stage forward (I like it ). The middle range little high 3db-4db from 800 to 3000 Hz. On bright recordings it a little not comfort listening , removed this problem by digital EQ , i thinks for MF wll be best Silmic II . I'm just wondering how much I can improve the sound by changing the capacitors, adding a transformer for low frequencies AMP and a PS filter with good capacitors plus recap all with different sounding capacitors . Thanks again for help and sharing yours experience .
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2018, 03:56 AM   #6
sumotan is offline sumotan  Indonesia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Hi Pashka
Since you already like the sound of your speakers may I suggest you to try another simple mod first. Go change the speaker internal wiring to Duelund 16awg for mids & low & use 20awg for tweeter. Don’t under estimate the wires, makes a fair bit of change to the Sq.
Im using it in part of my ML speaker
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2018, 07:58 AM   #7
Pashka is offline Pashka  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Philadelphia
Hi sumotan . Speaker cable very short ,(original) better make good AC cable later and many other things DIY .
I try recap amp and add more AC /DC power for LH amp only, because Amp of active speakers have small size transformer and small one capacitor 4700uf 100v for LH and MF amp , but sound gorgeous . I founded Epcos B41456 capacitor for my new extra PS for LH amp . Capacitor 22Kuf 100v 45A.
And I don't know maybe this power from capacitor 45A blow my 2N3055 transistors in one moment ? Maybe somebody can help me ?
Tomorow I w'll buy different name capacitors . w'll see ,
Silmic II , KZ , FG .
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2018, 12:25 PM   #8
sumotan is offline sumotan  Indonesia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Hi Pashka
I know it’s short but I assure you, you’ll hear the difference.
You mind share the kind of sound you are after now ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2018, 12:25 PM   #9
carlmart is offline carlmart  Brazil
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Brazil
Pashka,

A capacitor doesn't blow an amplifier's output, so the Epcos maximum current is not to blame for that.

22000uF won't even blow a good bridge either, as the turn on current peak demand should be within its specs. What type is the bridge? That should blow before the transistors probably.

Depending on the amp design, it might be interesting using better transistors. 2N3055 are too old.

What may blow transistors is within the amp: oscillation, too much bias current, etc.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2018, 03:51 PM   #10
Pashka is offline Pashka  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Philadelphia
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumotan View Post
Hi Pashka
I know it’s short but I assure you, you’ll hear the difference.
You mind share the kind of sound you are after now ?
I know, I want to improve the sound step by step so that I know what influenced and how. I have not done the search for information wire inside speakers yet, but I know one quality of the wire, and AWG is important, but another important factor is that these are magnetic fields, the configuration of the wire. This greatly changes the sound with the same sound. Another interesting idea is to look at the amplifier Dynaco ST 120, the capacitor is wrapped with wire and one end is thrown to the output. A good example is when a manufacturer knew about the influence of a magnetic field of its importance on sound.

I can not remember what is familiar that is ML speaker ?
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Improving Braun LV1020Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ADS a/d/s Braun PQ20 with no output gisewhcs Car Audio 3 21st September 2010 01:45 PM
Braun TS 45 Electrical Drawings aaronlubelski Introductions 1 12th September 2010 09:48 PM
Braun T-1000 Valuation SlunkBoy Swap Meet 6 18th February 2010 10:55 PM
Looking for Schematic for Braun PQ20 JoergST Car Audio 0 2nd May 2009 01:35 PM
Braun A1 amp questions jean-paul Solid State 2 1st December 2002 10:29 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:25 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki