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Old 10th December 2018, 04:08 PM   #11
sumotan is offline sumotan  Indonesia
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Hi Pashka
My speakers are Martin Logan Odyssey. Anway it nice that your going to try out to learn for yourself but try not to get caught up with too much technicalities. The way I tweak my set up is too many a heresy cause I don’t follow by the book. I try, I test so it is a very slow & timing consumming approach but what I learn is what the text book never teaches or perhaps not recommended. Lol. I would suggest that you start with the bridge rectifiers & the main PS caps first, this for me has always been the most important part. Still I would still strongly suggest that you change the internal wires first , no fancy twisting etc & don’t get caught up with wire gauge. FYI my speaker wires are just a single run of Duelund 16 awg & its sounds really good & because it sounded so gd I venture inside the speakers & change part of the internal wires to Duelund as well.

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Old 10th December 2018, 04:27 PM   #12
Pashka is offline Pashka  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlmart View Post
Pashka,

What type is the bridge? That should blow before the transistors probably.

Depending on the amp design, it might be interesting using better transistors. 2N3055 are too old.

What may blow transistors is within the amp: oscillation, too much bias current, etc.
Thanks for help carlmart , this is good news from you .
The original bridge for two LF and MF amplifiers is the B80C5000.
So what I want to do is add a 200VA transformer and separate LF amplifier , add bridge, and put the 22000 uf for power up the bass amplifier separately,
the original transformer will work for the mid , an high-range amplifier. Here is what separate PS for MF and HF amps , what capacitor w'll be good ?


transistor 2N3055 make job on LF and MF amplifiers . On HF amplifier got 2N5494 . So what i read on forum old 2N3055 sounding much better then modern the same transistors .
Hard to get info how is sounding other transistors ,for better replacement specific for Lf , MF and Hf amps .

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumotan View Post
Hi Pashka
My speakers are Martin Logan Odyssey. Anway it nice that your going to try out to learn for yourself but try not to get caught up with too much technicalities. The way I tweak my set up is too many a heresy cause I donít follow by the book. I try, I test so it is a very slow & timing consumming approach but what I learn is what the text book never teaches or perhaps not recommended. Lol. I would suggest that you start with the bridge rectifiers & the main PS caps first, this for me has always been the most important part.

Cheers
Thanks sumotan I'll check this wire .
What bridge w'lll be good for 3 different amps . Original I got 2 bridge for LH,MF B-80-C5000
for Hf amp B-80-C3300 .
Now I w'll have separate PS for LF with 22000uf and what best bridge recommended , may be replays old one with better ?


This is schematic .
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 10th December 2018, 05:24 PM   #13
sumotan is offline sumotan  Indonesia
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For amplifiers I only use Shindengen bridges, theyíre about the best that Iíve tried. Grainless & very smooth sounding yes that took me by surprise too. Since it is 3 amps you must think of it as 1 amp ya especially for Mid & LF. If you voice them differently youíll end up having a none harmonious sound.

Btw Pashka who give you the idea of changing the LF main PS value to 22000 uf ?
Given that the mids a dome, my guesstimate is that the woofer would at least have to work to about 500hz & this my fren is into midrange territory. With 22000 uf just for LF youíll kill the sound for sure, first thing that youíll notice is music sound very tight & constraint.
A very simple test to proof my point, go buy some cheap 22000uf caps put it in there sit back & listen

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Old 10th December 2018, 06:46 PM   #14
Pashka is offline Pashka  United States
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Good question about who gave the idea. No one . I decided that. if divide the power on the midrange and woofer between amps, then it will be a good upgrade. The transformer is now common with two power outputs (LF+MF) and another for HF. with different bridges .
The transformer itself is physically small , limited in the power supply, small capacitors look like so as not to overload the transformer. I am not a specialist in this area. I decided to add a transformer 200VA for the low-frequency amplifier, and leave the midrange on the old transformer , so I thought to increase the capacitance of the LF power supply and MF . Now there is a small capacitor with big ESR and low apms.
How upgrade right ?

right now on both amps LF, MF one small capacitor . this one , only 100v not 63v
Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by Pashka; 10th December 2018 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 10th December 2018, 10:22 PM   #15
sumotan is offline sumotan  Indonesia
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Transformer limited in power supply, do you really think so Pashka ? As to the small value caps well I like it & I think the Mid & LF amps are producing around 30-40 watts of power ?
If the bass does not sound whimpy now, then keep to the original value. The addition of a transformer will help tighten up the sound but 200va !!!!! thatís over kill but this I leave it to you. Happy tweaking

Btw Phaska use the same type of trafo as the original & if itís me I will look for the same or close to Va ratings as the original, that should provide enough head room for the LF amp.
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Old 11th December 2018, 01:27 AM   #16
Pashka is offline Pashka  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumotan View Post
Transformer limited in power supply, do you really think so Pashka ? As to the small value caps well I like it & I think the Mid & LF amps are producing around 30-40 watts of power ?
If the bass does not sound whimpy now, then keep to the original value. The addition of a transformer will help tighten up the sound but 200va !!!!! thatís over kill but this I leave it to you. Happy tweaking
Thanks a lot for help sumotan
Yes you right , power of each amps on one channel : LF 40, Mf 20, HF15. Play from 20-25000hz (DIN 45500)
One problem I have bump around 140hz 8db ,pro app EQ help me cut this bump .

I want try to give more power. I will experiment on the second set of amplifiers, bought in Germany.
Electrical (active) 320Hz 7000Hz crossover,
On the board, I can adjust level each amplifier , as well as 3 volume controls for each speaker on the front panel.

I do not understand one thing, why can it become worse if I add a separate power supply to the low-frequency amplifier? All 3 amplifiers power will be independent. Why the same transformer not other?
Sorry sumotan I'm don't know a lot , and thanks for helping me .

Not too much inside , but I do not know from where this amplifier has so much powerful dope. For all the time I have never heard that there was an overload with any volume level .

sumotan I have 3D sound on my stereo and I want move stage forward . How make stage forward, what capacitor doing this job or something else ? thanks
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Old 11th December 2018, 02:04 AM   #17
sumotan is offline sumotan  Indonesia
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You can only tweak the sound Pashka you cannot add more power as it’s inherent in the design & you won’t want to muck around with the circuit design for now. Since the trafo is EI you’ll need to look for an EI trafo for the LH as well. Why cause you want to keep the tonal quality & speed of the LF side to match closely to the Mids. Frankly even if you use a seperate EI trafo for the LF, there’s no assurance that it will match the MiD nicely simply because EI core material etc etc. This you would need to test & find out for yourself.
I personally do not like a too forward a sound. For Mains PS caps with this signature you can try Nichicon Super Through not Gold Tune ya . For circuit board try Panasonic FC & some Elna Cerafine. Cerafines are very clear & forward so you have to use with care.
Do not make too many changes at 1 go. I always test 1 location at a time. You have to allow the caps to burn in as sound will change.
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Old 11th December 2018, 03:20 AM   #18
Pashka is offline Pashka  United States
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Thanks sumotan you the best .
Does the EL transformer or toroidal sound different? I'll adjust level between LF and HF . I do not need high volume, I want to reveal the greater musical potential of these amplifier wirh speakers, which sound right now excellent, airy, realistic, spacious, truthful, dynamic, clear, natural and all instruments are separate.
Thanks for the help .
I know that you do not like the forward stage, I read earlier what you wrote. I listened expensive High end friend of mine store for half a million $ , it was like in headphones, it was not stereo, it was presence, the musicians were nearby. I was seek about this .
Over the past two months, I esoterically made a three-dimensional sound in my system, no cost, probably my gadgets work the same as with these Center Stage With Pitch Perfect Sound, but for free.

I looked bridges that you told me.
There are a lot of them on the Mouser Electronics - Electronic Components Distributor site, what would you recommend from this web site bridge for LF, MF, HF? Maybe you need some characteristics of the amplifier? Should I change the old ones? Thanks again .

Ops i got Question. How impotent in signal board replays old capacitor with the same voltage or higher? I check a lot of specification capacitor with higher voltage have lower ESR and more Ampere bigger size .
Other things so what I see , a lot of people compare capacitor for PS , and good one which like it everybody, this capacitors have a great value ampiry.
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Old 11th December 2018, 04:05 AM   #19
sumotan is offline sumotan  Indonesia
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If you already enjoy the sound of these speakers then you shouldnít alter too much.
Changing a cap will change the sound ya. So still back to my earlier suggestion, change the internal speaker wiring first. As for the trafo EI has always sound more analog to me over Toroid & off course it is until recent times that someone measured noise & found out toroids are wide band will allows more nasties to pass through to the secondary windings.

Yes higher voltage caps of same values will have lower esr but esr is not the be it all for SQ.
Youíve heard of Black Gates right, their esr is actually not very low when compared to other caps of same value & voltage. Itís very hard to tell you how & well to tweak cause every circuit behaves differently. What one needs to learn is what each component sonic signature is like & from there you test, mix & match to get to the sound that your looking for. Letís not forget resistors these little guys affect sound greatly too ya especially in ways of signal path. Mains caps 63v or 100v should be fine but if different brand frm original sound will change ya & when you change both MF & LF has to be replace.
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Old 11th December 2018, 04:27 AM   #20
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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Improving Braun LV1020
Wow, I have to say that so much here isn't supported factually at all. There are so many things that can affect the sound other than teh capacitor too. Even the circuit layout will overshadow what a decent capacitor sounds like. Of course, the best capacitors do not have a sound at all.

So many people are worried about wire, capacitors and such without even looking at the other basics. No instruments means there is no reference point for characteristics. Even my LCR meter is an excellent predictor of capacitor performance. Mind you, it's an expensive instrument for me. In the thousands, the ESR meters are useless. Most cheap ones don't measure dissipation and tend to be inaccurate on top of that.

I know many of you are doing your best to determine what the best parts are, but most simply don't have the tools you need to be successful. Expectation bias then kicks in and you believe what you want to. Those people will defend their choices to the death. What a curious hobby this can be.

The best advice I can give many of you is relax, keep an open mind and just use good quality capacitors. If you decide on a single model of capacitor - fine. Just don't get into an argument with others. I'm going to bet you can't tell the difference if you didn't know which capacitor was installed. I know this is the case as I have often experimented with people. What I do know for certain is that the best sounding capacitors measure among the more perfect capacitors. Yes, you can actually select capacitors using instruments and be right - every time. That's bound to be an unpopular comment.

-Chris
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