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Old 9th January 2019, 09:27 PM   #131
Pashka is offline Pashka  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumotan View Post
Where are you using the KZ Pasha ? Aside from the highs that I mentioned, KZ are pretty dynamic sounding caps. Again the 50v version sounds much much better then the 25v version of the same values. Go backwards, get the amps back to stock & focus on the XO first.
Yes sumotan you right . Now look like much better in many ways sound , I take of silmic , and return trimmer resistors position like before . But this is not final . My KZ 100v . Right now I use KZ in the amplifier on the LF and MF . and also in the MF and LF crossover only KZ right now . On amp an XO HF I got mix, Panasonic FC Silmic and KZ . Take off Silmic 1 day ago Not so everything is bad tragically, it is a lot of positive shifts and I thing capacitors not cooked well don , lets play little more time . Now so what I hear : Sound became less distorted, the piano changed to the best. There were new bouquets of harmonicas which fell down earlier, but also some things were gone. Interesting sound . More clear . I judge a sound having listened to many records so whgat I'm doing right now . (JRiver+DAC)

While listened wrote down not to forget that as plays. Just impressions comparing it on memory as sounded earlier.

Little less attack (???) over all became seems, but it is more details. Good attack on high mids and the same time more brightness and little too much on Mid high Fq . Guitar sounding very good ,( best ). The banjo and similar instruments little sound small. ( ) The bass is not built well, smeared on a stage, like surround effect on same records . The bass guitar sounding less naturally, reminds me the softness of subwoofer , very indistinct bass more. Bass does not go very low not receive earthquake. Generally the sound in what that became better the general specification, many instruments sound more clear , less distortions, more detail , the piano was always problematic now it became much better. The vocals on some records has no completeness, instrument on same records also not absolutely have a full body. The structure of harmonicas exchanged, I mean a pravilsny combination of harmonicas which create the general natural picture,vibration , filling a sound became now cleaner more bright and different harmonics activate , in many aspects other vibration feelings in harmonicas were shown. The top middle is bluff. I hear a little incompleteness of a body just a little on same records . The completeness of classical orchestra, massive or completeness of little bit disappear is very much felt on classical music. Look like too much high mids , EQ not help this is voice of capacitor , like character Drums not such dense and real as have to be on concert of Deep Purple , more sharp, skin on drums because of a bit body in a sound, a certain parody of small speakers not so vibrates and dynamic it is not obviously expressed, it a is a little not enough. The piano became much better with the smallest distortion. Saxophones not so strongly blow from speakers like before . KZ are not on friendly terms with the top mids , very sharp . Its good on dark speakers Hi Fi

Soundstage: Everything that about the center stage (mono )move little back. I would not tell that the stage with KZ wide, it is more similar to defect with a phase, a certain blurring. It possible is can be difficult to make holographic 3D sounding of such blur stage possible capacitors not burn complete .

An good volume sound right now Very Good , of course same moment much better then before, more clear , more detailed , same more dynamic , and so on . Little to bright on high mids and violins viola sound less natural . What is progress on low volume will see at evening time. Like before and after crazy separation instruments .(Super crazy separation )

Lets play one week more .
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Old 11th January 2019, 10:35 PM   #132
Pashka is offline Pashka  United States
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Somebody can identify these capacitors near KZ nichicon ?
47uf and 220uf

And one black one 10uf on board .

Thanks .
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Old 11th January 2019, 11:56 PM   #133
Pashka is offline Pashka  United States
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It can sound for many what I will tell now :
KZ turned out very bad for a sound on LF. I'm changed back capacitors that stood on LF earlier. The sound returned, massive, realistic and so on .

As sing KZ on LF:
The frequency balance does not change but so what i funded it look like there was information digradation of a sound on LF.
LF were squeezed and lost information. I tried played with equalizer any adjustments were useless , unbelievable It crazy , It was like my speakers can play right and low, any changes was miserable . EQ never correct sound if no information on signal or speakers can't reproduce right sound . In this case KZ make bad sound .

My LF XO and Amp frequencies up to 400 Hz with KZ changed sounding for the worse, Many instruments became thinner than before, a bass guitar small, drum did not give realness and dynamic natural blow, cannot go very low frequencies in records at all where they are present.
KZ cannot go low , the top average bass is clamped, there is no attack, is more similar to the compression splashes squeezed and hooting .

The singer's voice, musical instruments were clamped and had no full body, the bad bass realness, a lot of good realism from LF sound was gon .

Very cheap sounding, full digradation on LF
My point of improving Braun make this system play with more reality, more energy , and so on , KZ make huge step back on LF

KZ MID frequencies:

so far left and I listen.
All talk on a big and wide stage which is done by capacitors is a huge mistake of many appraisers, it actually is the defect of a sound given by capacitors . The effect is interesting, cool , but reminds a gruel more . I need more time to make any conclusion.

There is a wide stage in a sound, but also there was blurring of stage images wach instruments separation , this that reminds me Hi FI speakers with the internal passive crossover .
There is also a suspicion, the bad effect compression splashes appeared on same records
The top middle unpleasantly sticks out, offends an ear.

My MF XO and Amp right now has KZ .
It is possble Panasonic PC can be truly player , seriously I don't know.
Experiments must goin on
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Old 11th January 2019, 11:57 PM   #134
sumotan is online now sumotan  Indonesia
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One should never use one type of capacitor when tweaking Pashka. All caps have a certain sound to it so you must play enough to know their sonic signature. Re bright mids suggest that you try a mix of Elna Silmic not Silmic ll ya or Pana FC. The FC sound not too bad but on certain applications its tends to sound too forward

Kz is not making the sound worse Pashka. It is what you did that made it sound worse. The signals are being handled by the XO before it gets to the amp. That’s why I kept saying go back to stock & focus on getting the XO to sound good first before going to the amp. Btw as suggest by someone which you took his advice, changing amp PS caps to 10,000 uf is actually not a good thing. Too much of anything is never good. All you get out of it is tighter bass & focus but at the same time you loose the spaciousness or bloom of the sound which your looking for. If a circuit & speaker combo does not require that much reserve energy putting lots of Uf is not only a waste of money but also kills the sound.

Btw think you have a measuring gadget right ? Measure the esr of the stock caps, Im sure it is very much higher then KZ. All boutique caps have low esr & in order to create synergy, the preciding stage which in ur case is the XO, signal transmission speed must be in sync with the amp. This is something to think about Pashka & it’s also why you discovered that replacing KZ with stock cap brought back the sound.
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Old 12th January 2019, 12:32 AM   #135
Pashka is offline Pashka  United States
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Sumotan, (sorry I don't know you real name )
PS 10000uf make more vibration make more sound compite , not big different , but I hear ,much better, > Today I have Id , maybe try bigger caps for PS . Over all now sounding perfect . I want maximum realistic sounding system. Any small changes improvements w'll make me happy .

My mistake was that I mixed different condensers at once. It took more time to understand as sings each of them.

KZ is still good on MF , is very realistic sounds. KZ gave on MF more details, lives, presence sound stage. The piano is very good, a vocal super realistic , string instruments sound magically it is the most important trump of KZ.
Now I listenvocal and piano, just super even the wide stage of KZ gives the huge charm to realness.

With KZ on MF XO became more reality .But KZ not for LF is 100%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumotan View Post
Btw think you have a measuring gadget right ? Measure the esr of the stock caps, Im sure it is very much higher then KZ. All boutique caps have low esr & in order to create synergy, the preciding stage which in ur case is the XO, signal transmission speed must be in sync with the amp. This is something to think about Pashka & it’s also why you discovered that replacing KZ with stock cap brought back the sound.
This is mine main set of amps first generation 10500 . it was recap in NY before I bought them . You can see capacitors what was and now on LF amp and XO.
I'm ask everybody , maybe some one know this capacitors .
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Old 12th January 2019, 12:47 AM   #136
sumotan is online now sumotan  Indonesia
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Since this is your findings, may I suggest that you either massage the LF XO or you can try increasing UF value of Kz . Do note that LF will suck more power over the MF & HF amps
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Old 12th January 2019, 12:59 AM   #137
Pashka is offline Pashka  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumotan View Post
Since this is your findings, may I suggest that you either massage the LF XO or you can try increasing UF value of Kz . Do note that LF will suck more power over the MF & HF amps
I don-t know how its work , i replace old caps with the same uf value .

probably PS capacitor 10Kuf is burned more and more and I see a difference at low frequencies, it sounds perfectly now. more detailed LF , more life , natural .
KZ is real bad on LF all spoiled, replays today at night it was over me .

I need know what capacitors on pictures
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Old 12th January 2019, 01:10 AM   #138
sumotan is online now sumotan  Indonesia
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Do you happen to have extra KZ on hand ? Parallel another KZ & listen again
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Old 12th January 2019, 01:17 AM   #139
Pashka is offline Pashka  United States
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Join Date: Apr 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumotan View Post
One should never use one type of capacitor when tweaking Pashka. All caps have a certain sound to it so you must play enough to know their sonic signature. Re bright mids suggest that you try a mix of Elna Silmic not Silmic ll ya or Pana FC. The FC sound not too bad but on certain applications its tends to sound too forward
I listened music at the friend audio shop High end , that struck me , a sound was at me inside my head as in earphones mono signal all other was was a tridimensionality. It seems I know how to make a holographic three-dimensional space and here is how to move stage very close it did not turn out yet. So far I listen to music from the 10th row now in the hall.

I will try Panasonic FC , it is interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumotan View Post
Do you happen to have extra KZ on hand ? Parallel another KZ & listen again
Good Id , Thanks . I'll try . I need time . I want make a life one amps from second set .

I sit and listen space music and I want to cry , not with music, and that I look at the scheme of the amplifier and I understand nothing how this works and more . By bad accident I left tweezers on a table then the amplifier on it put and got consequences:
Transistors burned down
T606
T604 605
Resistors
P607 P608

This is all this that I found. Replaced all burned-down spare parts turn on and T604 T605 and fuse burn again , I check again resistants between two amps good one and this and all was looking fine , turn again and the same story . T604 and T608 burn again. Instead of a BD137 BD138 I use BD139 BD140.

Where and what I need check , where can be problem ? This is my second set of amp Braun .

Thanks
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Old 12th January 2019, 07:04 AM   #140
sumotan is online now sumotan  Indonesia
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Is the orientation of T604/605 soldered back correctly Pashka ? Check D601 & R611 with dvm to see if they’re still ok. Situations like this are tough to debug. The short circuit may have damaged other transistors as well. Check also the continuity of PCB traces Pashka.
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