Go Back   Home > Forums > >

Solid State Talk all about solid state amplification.

First cycle distortion - Graham, what is that?
First cycle distortion - Graham, what is that?
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 5th January 2021, 12:25 PM   #1021
traderbam is offline traderbam  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
traderbam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by petr_2009 View Post
Jan, tell it to Jiri Dostal
But that is the expected response to a ramp input of a perfect, bandwidth limited amplifier. It is also the response of a low pass RC filter to a ramp input.

What has this got to do with distortion?
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2021, 01:38 PM   #1022
Markw4 is online now Markw4  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: California
Quote:
Originally Posted by syn08 View Post

If this (hearing LSB changes in H2 and H3 both down around -120dB) is not a super human hearing claim, than perhaps Iron Man is your neighbor. Those who wish can follow the context of the above.
I probably have below average hearing as far as my ears are concerned. I have age related hearing loss, more in one ear than the other. That makes careful listening harder for me than it might be for other people

Regarding what I can hear, I already showed I could sort noninverting opamp buffers (designed and built by PMA) in order of distortion by ear and do it blind. PMA gave me credit in one of his listening test threads for it. It was damn hard, but I did manage to sort all but the last one because I was exhausted from the mental effort involved.

Its all about how the brain has learned to process sound before it reaches conscious awareness, nothing else. Other people can and have learned how to do it too. Those who haven't learned may not believe its possible. Some of them get quite angry when they read such words, but none of them have done any science to see if its possible or not. Their belief is more like religion than science, I am sad to say. And of course, people can get angry if they feel their religion is threatened. I expected more from smart, well-educated people until I realized they are just as biased as anyone else, perhaps some being more biased than average.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2021, 03:18 PM   #1023
indra1 is online now indra1  Indonesia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bogor
Everybody has different ears, different neuron cell interconnections, different mindset, different upbringing and different attitude. Live and let Live, how else?
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2021, 04:59 PM   #1024
syn08 is offline syn08  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
syn08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Quote:
Originally Posted by petr_2009 View Post
sin08, did I draw the block diagram of your amplifier correctly?
I have two requests for you:

1. Please show the delay graph or delay of any kind of signal (sine, square, triangular) with a frequency higher than 10 kHz at the output of this amplifier in relation to the input signal
2. Show the graph of the loop gain

p.s. I'm just too lazy to type a model of a complete circuit to check these parameters

Sorry, I don't have time for useless work.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2021, 05:18 PM   #1025
jan.didden is offline jan.didden  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
jan.didden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Westende Resort, BE coast
Petr, you're amazing!

'I am too lazy, please can you do my work? For free of course.'

Jan
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2021, 05:41 PM   #1026
petr_2009 is offline petr_2009  South Korea
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
syn08, it would be enough for me to look at the GD of your amplifier to predict how it will sound. Instead of your circuit, I typed the circuit of the prototype - Cherry amplifier. Here are the results of his testing. It’s not surprising to me that this amplifier received such a response.

New Cherry NDFL amp
But I also have to say that the amplifier sounds typically 1 dimensional solid state, with no real space to the image and that Hugh Deans latest creation, with 100 X more THD1 distortion sounds much better. So I have to put this technique alongside the other excellent academic articles I have read and participated in. Excellent in theory, measures well in practice (as far as my modest test capability allows) but does not live up to the expectation audibly.

As an engineer this is disappointing, but based on recent experience, not entirely unexpected!

I am fast going down the road of the minimum number of components the better and ironically this seems to work equally well for the ear and the pocket!

Markw4:
I expected more from smart, well-educated people until I realized they are just as biased as anyone else, perhaps some being more biased than average.

To be honest, I also expected more ...
Attached Images
File Type: png Cherry-1983_Bode.png (47.0 KB, 97 views)
File Type: png Cherry-1983_Loop-Gain.png (31.8 KB, 92 views)
File Type: png Cherry-1983_10period_THDvsFrequensy.png (75.2 KB, 91 views)
File Type: png Cherry-1983_4period_THDvsFrequensy.png (77.0 KB, 79 views)
File Type: png Cherry-1983_IMD_19-20kHz.png (27.7 KB, 78 views)
File Type: png Cherry-1983_crossover-dist.png (37.5 KB, 17 views)

Last edited by petr_2009; 5th January 2021 at 05:47 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2021, 05:47 PM   #1027
syn08 is offline syn08  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
syn08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markw4 View Post
I probably have below average hearing as far as my ears are concerned. I have age related hearing loss, more in one ear than the other.
So one person with hearing loss can be trained to hear things well over the average person, correct?

Nice, can a person with vision loss also be trained to see the Mars satellites naked eyes? Or perhaps the Saturn rings? Or the training applies only to hearing?

What is your hourly rate for such hearing training, must be something you may want to monetize on? Any prerequisites for the hearing training sessions?
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2021, 05:51 PM   #1028
syn08 is offline syn08  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
syn08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Quote:
Originally Posted by petr_2009 View Post
syn08, it would be enough for me to look at the GD of your amplifier to predict how it will sound.
Good for you, but I'm not buying.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2021, 05:54 PM   #1029
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
diyAudio Member
 
scottjoplin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Penrhyndeudraeth
Mark, do you take your clothes off when you critically listen?
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2021, 05:58 PM   #1030
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
PMA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Prague
103 pages about lack of understanding of the difference between sine wave and suddenly turned on sine train at zero. Unbelievable.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


First cycle distortion - Graham, what is that?Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Graham's Class A/JLH output jcx Solid State 135 24th May 2008 07:12 AM
50/60/whatever cycle hum engels Tubes / Valves 11 2nd January 2008 03:48 PM
Graham Maynard Stocker Everything Else 0 28th March 2007 04:47 PM
Remember First cycle distortion? Read all about it . . . boholm Solid State 0 27th June 2004 07:28 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:34 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.00%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2021 diyAudio
Wiki