The "most powerful" Audio Transistors on today's market - Any experience with these ?
Hi;
I was wondering if any one has any experience using the following Semelab / Magnatec Audio Power Transistors ?
According to the attached data sheets - they are the highest current bipolar device on the market ( today ) - having a 400 watt collector dissipation, with far better SOA characteristics than any other similar device. This makes them highly desirable for BIG Audio Amplifier designs. Types shown below are >
Type Polarity VCE Ic Pcw Ft Hfe Package
MG6332K NPN 230 30 400 60 50 TO-3
MG9412K PNP 230 30 400 35 50 TO-3
MG6333K NPN 260 30 400 60 50 TO-3
MG9413K PNP 260 30 400 35 50 TO-3
The attached data sheets and all other references to these devices I can find, indicate they are only available in TO-264 package; yet the SEMELAB website says they are only made in a TO-3 pack.
Hence my confusion !
I'm interested in getting only the TO-3 devices as I don't like plastic pack chips for high power designs - despite their popularity.
Because of the higher SOA ratings to other transistors, I'm looking at building a very high power Leach Amp with these devices.
Finally - I would like to know where I can buy these chips in the TO-3 package, as they don't come up under many semiconductor listings even as a plastic pack. I've emailed Semelab and had no reply. If any one knows of devices even better than these, I would like to know about them.
Hi;
I was wondering if any one has any experience using the following Semelab / Magnatec Audio Power Transistors ?
According to the attached data sheets - they are the highest current bipolar device on the market ( today ) - having a 400 watt collector dissipation, with far better SOA characteristics than any other similar device. This makes them highly desirable for BIG Audio Amplifier designs. Types shown below are >
Type Polarity VCE Ic Pcw Ft Hfe Package
MG6332K NPN 230 30 400 60 50 TO-3
MG9412K PNP 230 30 400 35 50 TO-3
MG6333K NPN 260 30 400 60 50 TO-3
MG9413K PNP 260 30 400 35 50 TO-3
The attached data sheets and all other references to these devices I can find, indicate they are only available in TO-264 package; yet the SEMELAB website says they are only made in a TO-3 pack.
Hence my confusion !
I'm interested in getting only the TO-3 devices as I don't like plastic pack chips for high power designs - despite their popularity.
Because of the higher SOA ratings to other transistors, I'm looking at building a very high power Leach Amp with these devices.
Finally - I would like to know where I can buy these chips in the TO-3 package, as they don't come up under many semiconductor listings even as a plastic pack. I've emailed Semelab and had no reply. If any one knows of devices even better than these, I would like to know about them.
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We know DIY'ers will say "WOW" and want to build/replace with these devices.
Low High current Hfe and massive Cob means these devices will NOT outperform
standard devices.
Put these in a "Badger" or "DX" EF2 , you might even fry the drivers while trying
to break in your 2R subwoofer.
These are HUGE dies (I've seen one) , best driven by outputs used as drivers.
TO-220 devices just will not do.
A leach amp or any triple with mje340/350 - njw0302/0281 - MG6332/9412
would "heat up a wire" . My new sub amp is designed for the above setup.
(I have a 2R sub - 50V rails).
OS
Low High current Hfe and massive Cob means these devices will NOT outperform
standard devices.
Put these in a "Badger" or "DX" EF2 , you might even fry the drivers while trying
to break in your 2R subwoofer.
These are HUGE dies (I've seen one) , best driven by outputs used as drivers.
TO-220 devices just will not do.
A leach amp or any triple with mje340/350 - njw0302/0281 - MG6332/9412
would "heat up a wire" . My new sub amp is designed for the above setup.
(I have a 2R sub - 50V rails).
OS
You mean one of them is about the same as 2 or 3 standard devices? And about the same price, too....
Hi,
One of them can't be as robust as 2 or 3 standard T03
devices, 2 or 3 devices have much better heatsinking.
Standard devices are near the limits of one T03 package.
If you want robust, use multiple devices, more than you need.
rgds, sreten.
If only there were SPICE models for them...
They should be similar to MJL21193/94 (another high SOA-low gain device) in how they simulate.
Similar 1-2R (1W) base-stoppers with "output" drivers will
do the job. A larger "suck-out" capacitor across the driver Re would also help.
Also , "triple only" application wise .... for these monsters.
My new GLA triple http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/243842-gla-good-little-amp-survivor.html
could easily drive 2 (or 10) pairs of these MG devices. 2 pair at 50V
would "melt the wire" (or blow the fuses) before the SOA limitations.
I commented here because I was actively looking for devices such as these..
(and found them weeks ago). So , I designed the amp for either the 21193/4's
or these MG's.
OS
That goes along with the wattage .. how much can dissipate from die to slug to
heatsink.
A larger die can dissipate more to the "package" slug. The to-264 package
has a smaller slug , so that is it's limitation.
One of these MG devices would most likely be a 500w device in TO-3 form.
OS
Is it really as good? The MJL21193 can do 80V/2A this monster can do 90V/2A. Not a real big advantage.
Sajti
They should be similar to MJL21193/94 (another high SOA-low gain device) in how they simulate.
Similar 1-2R (1W) base-stoppers with "output" drivers will
do the job. A larger "suck-out" capacitor across the driver Re would also help.
Also , "triple only" application wise .... for these monsters.
My new GLA triple http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/243842-gla-good-little-amp-survivor.html
could easily drive 2 (or 10) pairs of these MG devices. 2 pair at 50V
would "melt the wire" (or blow the fuses) before the SOA limitations.
I commented here because I was actively looking for devices such as these..
(and found them weeks ago). So , I designed the amp for either the 21193/4's
or these MG's.
OS
I think that this is not like the 21193/94, it looks like the upscaled 2SC6145/2SA2223. So it' Sanken clone, with bigger die inside (double die version??)
I agree that it needs big drivers, NJW0xxx can do the job, with 22-33ohm common emitter resistor.
Sajti
Absolutely agree! The thermal resistance between the case and the heatsink can be 0.2-0.5 K/W depending by the insulator. This means 20-50 degree with 100W dissipation. It's very hard limitation, and we have to use huge heatsink to dissipate same power with single devices.
Why the PA amplifiers are use lot of smaller output devices, and not a single big?
Sajti
Agree, for the same money or cheaper you can get few toshibas and dissapate heat no problem, thermal capacity will be higher too (important too).
Better of to look for some other parameters that wattage, but what can we do, the fundamental question is: How many watts does it have? This is allways first question if someone is asking what I am working on.
Better of to look for some other parameters that wattage, but what can we do, the fundamental question is: How many watts does it have? This is allways first question if someone is asking what I am working on.
100ms SOA
We are not going to heat our coffee/tea with these.
Short term impedance dips and transients during HTPC "explosions".
Considering the dynamics , the average will never exceed dissipation
thresholds.
On a peak ... driving a 2R sub , the 100ms SOA gives "confidence".
I only considered these for a special situation driving a "buyout" driver
from parts-express.
OS
We are not going to heat our coffee/tea with these.
Short term impedance dips and transients during HTPC "explosions".
Considering the dynamics , the average will never exceed dissipation
thresholds.
On a peak ... driving a 2R sub , the 100ms SOA gives "confidence".
I only considered these for a special situation driving a "buyout" driver
from parts-express.
OS
My concern with SOA has to do with guitar amplifiers which spend significant time slaming the rails. This is much different than the 60 degree reactive load used in most SOA papers I've read. My avatar pic is an X-Y display of a speakers' voltage and current under such conditions. When an output transistor has to conduct one or two amps with full rail to rail voltage across it, that concerns me because it's hard to know what the duration time might be under all conditions. I try to stay under the full power SOA curve, but once the rail to rail voltage goes above 50V, the number of parallel devices goes up.
I'm still looking for devices that have big SOA full power voltages and have high beta. Any suggestions?
I'm still looking for devices that have big SOA full power voltages and have high beta. Any suggestions?
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