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2stageEF high performance class AB power amp / 200W8R / 400W4R
2stageEF high performance class AB power amp / 200W8R / 400W4R
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Old 15th March 2019, 10:53 AM   #2821
Dave Zan is online now Dave Zan  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astx View Post
... a new member for my measurement "park" ...
That looks very nice, I have not seen Sourcetronic.
And coincidentally I just sent you an email.

Best wishes
David

Last edited by Dave Zan; 15th March 2019 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 15th March 2019, 11:20 AM   #2822
astx is offline astx  Austria
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Thx David!



... a Cbc measurement of Sanken 2SA2223AY using 10mV/100kHz test signal. (Cjc space charge capacitance at vBC=0V)
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Old 15th March 2019, 11:35 AM   #2823
keantoken is offline keantoken  United States
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Interesting, can you vary the frequency to see if the series R changes? This may be the Rb value for our simulation models.
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Old 15th March 2019, 04:22 PM   #2824
astx is offline astx  Austria
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Dear keantoken,

this is what I like as diyaudio fan. We help together to get better amps, have fun on math, simulations, modeling and real life testing.
Will do and report tomorrow some better data in your 6145/2223 sanke thread.
Quicktested the 2SA2223A: below 25kHz the display of the series R is wonky. Above 25k it stays nearly same ...


BR, Toni
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Last edited by astx; 15th March 2019 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 15th March 2019, 04:48 PM   #2825
keantoken is offline keantoken  United States
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I could rack up an incredible number of hours spent on those models if we keep revising them. Not sure I want to do this forever.

What is the R value given when Cbe is tested?

The Rb in the 2223 model is fairly close, changing the 6145 model may mean deviating from the datasheet Vbe curve.
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Old 17th March 2019, 09:20 AM   #2826
rephil is offline rephil  Europe
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... a Cbc measurement of Sanken 2SA2223AY using 10mV/100kHz test signal. (Cjc space charge capacitance at vBC=0V)[/QUOTE]

Hi Astx ,

I did check your values on my bridge, and here are the successive values as I did get them that I did find at 5mV and 100kHz :

933.33 pF and 58.9 Ohm Avg 10 times 2SC6145AY
1.6478 nF and 23.1 Ohm Avg 10 times 2SA2223AY

933.95 pF and 58.5 Ohm Avg 10 times 2SC6145AY
1.6493 nF and 23.1 Ohm Avg 10 times 2SA2223AY

I have found that the Rs value dipends on the V of the measurement : at 10 mV I find lower Rs values : around 32 Ohm and 15 Ohm.

Thanks for the reference of the Hand Tapper made in China you did give to us : I did get one and it is a great tool that works fine !

Best regards

rephil
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Old 17th March 2019, 11:01 AM   #2827
astx is offline astx  Austria
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Dear rephil,

my LCRZ measurements Cs-Rs results are relatively independent from test signal 10mV up to 190mV (where the bjt diode starts conducting a bit) e.g. for the 2SA2223AY Rs is about 3R at 10mV and slighly reduces a few percent up to 190mV test signal.
From 25kHz up to 100kHz the values are also stable within a few percent.
Maybe your LCR isn't able to go as low as needed. Your measured Rs values are more as 10 - 20 times higher as my results.
My new LCRZ regulates the output impedance automatically from 3 Ohm to 30 kOhm and works even if you apply an external bias voltage.

Take some small capacitors and increase the test signal level from 10mV up to 2 Vrms.
E.g. use a Wima 10nF MKP10 630V. The Rs should stay same at same test frequency (100kHz) during test voltage sweep. I measure 0.11R

BR, Toni


P.S.: about hand tapper: you are welcome!
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Last edited by astx; 17th March 2019 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 17th March 2019, 11:05 AM   #2828
astx is offline astx  Austria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keantoken View Post
...
What is the R value given when Cbe is tested?
...
Dear keantoken,

will do some more testing and present you the data in the 6145/2223 thread from you. Thx so much for supporting us diy'ers with optimized models!

BR, Toni
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Old 18th March 2019, 08:50 AM   #2829
rephil is offline rephil  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astx View Post
Dear rephil,

my LCRZ measurements Cs-Rs results are relatively independent from test signal 10mV up to 190mV (where the bjt diode starts conducting a bit) e.g. for the 2SA2223AY Rs is about 3R at 10mV and slighly reduces a few percent up to 190mV test signal.
From 25kHz up to 100kHz the values are also stable within a few percent.
Maybe your LCR isn't able to go as low as needed. Your measured Rs values are more as 10 - 20 times higher as my results.
My new LCRZ regulates the output impedance automatically from 3 Ohm to 30 kOhm and works even if you apply an external bias voltage.

Take some small capacitors and increase the test signal level from 10mV up to 2 Vrms.
E.g. use a Wima 10nF MKP10 630V. The Rs should stay same at same test frequency (100kHz) during test voltage sweep. I measure 0.11R

BR, Toni


P.S.: about hand tapper: you are welcome!
Hi Toni ,

I have bad news (for me) : I did check at first my LCR before doing the test you are suggesting : it is a GWinstek LCR model 819. So, I have seen after recalling the calibration factory set up that at first the internal battery should be changed . With the reloaded factory settings, I did repeat the measurement I did do with the same transistors. Now the Rs is mostly 6 Ohm and 4 Ohm at 10mV, 5mV and both at 100kHz. I apologize with you for the values I did provide here. The internal battery will be changed, and I wil let perform a calibration of the instrument by authorized people (after 10 more years, it should be done ). I have now to find out who could do that in Belgium for me, people being able to perform that well !

Please nobody should consider the measurement values I did provide, these have been done with a very good LCR meter that is today in need of help ... Sorry for that.

Best regards - Mit freundlichen Grüßen aus Belgien

rephil
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Old 18th March 2019, 10:01 AM   #2830
astx is offline astx  Austria
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Dear rephil,


thanks for reporting this. Hopefully you get your LCR re-calibrated. Isn't there a procedure you can do yourself? Maybe you only need to buy some known parts to do a minimum setup?

BTW: found a pdf for recalibration, but you need additional measurement parts and devices: http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/da...ranleitung.pdf


BR, Toni
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Last edited by astx; 18th March 2019 at 10:16 AM.
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