JFet vs bipolar

Asbjorn said:

I've been doing some listening tests of jfet vs bipolar transistors, and found some generel sound differences.

Jfets tends to sound softly, while bipolar sounds more dynamic.

Okay.
I think this is a myth.
I did some comparing spice tests with differential inputs.
Lownoise JFETs vs. Lownoise BJT.

Note: My test used ONLY input pair, with collector resistors.
They were tuned to do exactly same AC current job.

for example: 5 uA current AC output across 1 kOhm resistors
or 5 /50 mV ac across same resistors.

This means
- open loop
- one transistor base/gate tied to GND
- the other fead with a few mVolt input

I did tests without Emitter/source resistors.
In this case I adjusted mV input, to do same job across collector load
( BJT had like 4-5 higher gain than JFET. uA AC current / mVolt input )

The THD harmonics ( 2nd + 3rd ) was at very similar level of magnitude.
At same job done.

The only significant difference was that JFET had a bit higher 3rd harm dist, than 2nd harmonics.
While BJT, bipolar had the other way: Like 7-8 dB higher 2nd harmonic distortion, than 3rd

This might come as surprise.
But actually this was so in my test.

I also tested with same input level: 1mV / 5 mV
In this case I adjusted with Emitter/Source resistors
to get equal job done.
Of course the bipolar in this case can afford more resistive degeneration
as they have like 4-5 higher AC current output per milliVolt AC in.

This gave like 12 dB lower level distortion than JFET pair. ( -149 dB vs. -137 dB )
At same level in, same collector job done.

=======================
My Conclusions:

All else equal,
- Lownoise JFET ( 2SK170 ) have higher 3rd harm. distortion, by their nature, than bipolar lownoise

- For lowest 3rd harm. distortion + overall THD, use bipolar input differential
- Or use JFET while letting them perform an easier job
+ use some Source degeneration RESISTORS for them

Remember, not only low THD is a positive amplifier feature.
Also we have low bias current and DC Output offset to consider, many times.

Lineup
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You will find a thesis on exactly the same subject Audio Frequency Noise Characteristics of JFets AN74-4 by Siliconix. JFet design catalogue 1983! Also composite Op-Amp for high performance AN81-3.
Unfortunately both no longer in print.

I have no software means for copying/ sending both articles.

richj
 
I have a Cary Audio headphone amp, Nighthawk, which is now discontinued, bought it 7 years ago. It came with AD825 opamps socketed on browndog adapters. I was actually thinking along the lines of the discrete opamps from Burson audio or Sparkos labs. They claim you can just install, replace them with any audio opamp. But is this really true?
 
Hard to tell without knowing more. The Cary seems to be a discrete poweramp with an opamp at the input. Very likely the opamp is responsible for maintaining the dc offset at output and as such it's dc performance is critical. The 825 has 1mV of input offset voltage and practically nil input offset current. You should aim for a similar or better input offset voltage and the effect of possibly elevated input offset current will depend upon the resistor values.

Perhaps the easiest is to plug in an alternative opamp and measure the offset voltage at output.

Even without knowing the exact dc properties of the discrete opamps i am not optimistic. Very unlikely any discrete opamp will beat an AD825 at DC.
 
Hello everyone,
Hope I chose the right thread for my question. Is it ok to use a Bipolar opamp in a circuit that originally uses a JFET opamp
Very much depends on the source impedance, and the requirements for bias current. If the source impedance is very high, JFET or CMOS opamps can provide that. If the bias current has to be very small, again its a job for a JFET or CMOS opamp.

One situation commonly seen is when bias current passes through a potentiometer wiper (for instance in volume tone control) - this will risk horrific crackling if you use a bipolar opamp. If the pot wiper is protected by a capacitor and the bias current has a separate DC path, either bipolar or FET will work.

For low source impedances where very low voltage noise is required bipolars tend to dominate (AD797 for instance). If current noise is an issue, FETs tend to win out (some bipolars have pretty low current noise though).
 
Hard to tell without knowing more. The Cary seems to be a discrete poweramp with an opamp at the input. Very likely the opamp is responsible for maintaining the dc offset at output and as such it's dc performance is critical. The 825 has 1mV of input offset voltage and practically nil input offset current. You should aim for a similar or better input offset voltage and the effect of possibly elevated input offset current will depend upon the resistor values.

Perhaps the easiest is to plug in an alternative opamp and measure the offset voltage at output.

Even without knowing the exact dc properties of the discrete opamps i am not optimistic. Very unlikely any discrete opamp will beat an AD825 at DC.
Could you possibly help me with measuring offset voltage. I’m not an experienced technician, but I do have a digital multimeter. Thanks