Simple Symetrical Amplifier

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
LC, I think I will get those when i get a chance, but i have some bad news of mine.

Maybe is due to poor electricity, when I close one of my house ballast light, the voltage went somewhere else, and my fuse trip. well... i thought it protected my device, but no.... something went burn and I don't know where.... (replaced fuse and still trip, only happen to one channel)

So now i would upgrade my power section first before i proceed.... don't want the same thing happens (I just use unregulated dual supply consist of rectifier and capacitor)
Any suggestion for me regarding this ? Have not much knowledge on power supply.... especially destroy my another amplifier..... (protection against small main voltage fluctuation)
About the amplifier, i can't find the fault so I will desolder it and examine later....

Extra question : I have some spare BD139/BD140 but they are from different manufacturer so their attribute could be very different. So I would ike to know what should do to determine is it "complementary" enough for use in amplifier ?
 
diyAudio Chief Moderator
Joined 2002
Paid Member
The multicomp one looks like Philips to me, the ST has a bigger die hence lower Ft. To really know two BJTs are following is curve tracing them but no NPN and PNP are ever perfect mirror images anyway. See to have a pair of near hfe and Cob from the same maker is the practical thing. If you can get the multicomp BD139 also it will be OK. What variety is it? -16? In Philips I got many near hfe ones from both sexes in -16.
 
diyAudio Chief Moderator
Joined 2002
Paid Member
The easiest way I ever seen, don't know if best.
 

Attachments

  • MILSPEC_Ft.gif
    MILSPEC_Ft.gif
    16.8 KB · Views: 615
Could you tell us what the current is above which you cannot notice improvement - thx :)
The answer had still be given previously in this thread: ~ 150mA per device for FETs, 300 for BJT (but i have less experienced those concerning this point and it depend there more on the open loop bandwidth of the amp).
Of course, assuming you feed them with a GOOD PSU.
The best way is to make (objectively) your own testings.
Concerning temp, the best seems, on my experience, around 40 -> 50°, not less.
 
LC, regarding VAS, i think i couldn't get those good BJT needed from my dealer. So I think another alternative is using MOSFET, BIBGT, etc. I personally think MOSFET is good for me, since i frequently getting VAS thermal problem, so i think it's thermal property would suitable for me (increase in resistant when heated)

Need alot of advise on this since i don't know them at all...... need information such as criteria of choosing for VAS, modifying circuit connection, precaution using them, etc.

As in 2SA1707/4487, i'm thinking of using them as driver/predriver, is it appropriate ? or excessive ?
 
Last edited:
It is not quiescent current what is important in case of BJT OPS but the voltage between emitter resistors. Look in Audio Power Amplifier Design Hanbook by D. Self.

Maybe that was not clear enough. Barny Oliver optimum point is 26mV across one emittor resistor(plus re of the transistor) to set quiescent current. If set to high you get more A class power but after that there is more distortion. 300mA is way to much.
dado
 
Hello, Jay
Your amp building experience is wide and rises definite respect. At the same time, I can not agree with attributing resulting sound to a kind of active parts - tubes, mosfets, etc.
jFETs can result in amplification stages sounding better than tubes - one shoud choose those of them with few pF Ciss, rather than 100pF like for 2SJ74.

Hi Vladimir, actually we have no disagreement here.

With tube designs, choke input PS and high quality caps usually is a must

For me it is always a must. Even for SS design. For example, find two vanilla amp designs where amp A is preferred by 60% audience and amp B preferred by 40% audience. Then give a good regulated power supply for the front end of amp B (amp A has no dedicated front end supply). I will not surprised if there would be a massive preference switch to amp B.

I was unable to integrate a tube line amp into my system, until I found out that I have to pay critical attention to the heater power supply. Yes, I use chokes for this.

With my gratest respect to Lazy Cat and excellent measured performance of the SSA designs, I am not active in this thread because of impossibility to implement my empirically found design principles.
If one uses standard PS and Push-Pull output stage at SS design, irrespective of the rest of schematics and measured parameters, one must forget about competition with good SE Tube amps at mids and highs. With other design principles one can repeatedly win against best tube designs.

Of course, for cost-no-object design you wont consider the SSA. Neither do I. I pick the SSA for my class-B high power (at least 75W) amp. For smaller wattage amp, who wants an amp with global feedback???
 
Bias Levels

Nico Ras - I read some years ago that John Curl also recommends 25mV across Re.

If you bias up 26mV across the emitter resistor, then re = Re, since the Zout of an emitter follower is 26/Ic.

This halves the transconductance of the output device, and it may be minimising distortion at crossover because it brings the gm doubling issue into line at the crossover event where this problem is greatest.

Your thoughts, Nico?

Hugh
 
According to upper claims, meaning all output transistors in A-class are way out of their optimal operating conditions, producing unavoidable self distortions ... :rolleyes:

Are A-class crossover distortions so more beneficial and prevail over transistor's excessive bias current conditions? Where's optimum? Using 30 pairs of outputs at 100 mA each for proper A-class? :eek:
 
According to upper claims, meaning all output transistors in A-class are way out of their optimal operating conditions, producing unavoidable self distortions ... :rolleyes:

Are A-class crossover distortions so more beneficial and prevail over transistor's excessive bias current conditions? Where's optimum? Using 30 pairs of outputs at 100 mA each for proper A-class? :eek:

It looks like you do not understand upper claims.
 
If you bias up 26mV across the emitter resistor, then re = Re, since the Zout of an emitter follower is 26/Ic.

This halves the transconductance of the output device, and it may be minimising distortion at crossover because it brings the gm doubling issue into line at the crossover event where this problem is greatest.

Your thoughts, Nico?

Hugh

You put it so simply, it must contain some truth. Using mostly lateral MOSFETS I find that the lowest harmonic distortion resulted between 160-190 mA bias current (using 2SK1058/2SJ162 combination). Since reading John Curl's advice I adjusted Rs for the required 25 mV with acceptable and consistent audible results (proportional local negative feedback).

Whether this number is as Hugh says, or from John's experience or just hocus pocus is hard to tell but it seems to have the desired effects.
 
Last edited:
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.