Single cycle 1Khz tone burst is 1760W/8R, or 118.65V RMS, 335.5V P-P
http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/legacy/103169.pdf
http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/legacy/103169.pdf
It's hard to tell as the spec sheet measurements are totally different.
http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/amps/137289.pdf
I suspect the I-Tech amps have regulated switch-mode supplies, so they will have no peak power (above the RMS rating).
The I-Tech power supplies don't drive 2R loads well from the looks of the spec sheets.
My personal experience with amplifiers with switch-mode supplies has been negative. With poor power lines (most small venues) they sounded gut-less, and old-style amps with beer-can sized capacitors and big iron transformers could play louder (even though they were rated at less power).
I would want to use one for a while before I would make a buying decision. Can you rent one, or do you have a local dealer?
http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/amps/137289.pdf
I suspect the I-Tech amps have regulated switch-mode supplies, so they will have no peak power (above the RMS rating).
The I-Tech power supplies don't drive 2R loads well from the looks of the spec sheets.
My personal experience with amplifiers with switch-mode supplies has been negative. With poor power lines (most small venues) they sounded gut-less, and old-style amps with beer-can sized capacitors and big iron transformers could play louder (even though they were rated at less power).
I would want to use one for a while before I would make a buying decision. Can you rent one, or do you have a local dealer?
Cheers djk.
I’ll explain the situation I am going through. At the moment, I own 6 Crown MA 5000vz amplifiers. They have served me well for nearly 14 years with no failures whatsoever. I am looking to purchase two more amplifiers and, figured I would give Crown’s new top of the line a try for many say they perform better than the 5000/5002 for their applications. In addition to having excellent luck with Crown amplifiers, pre-dating my Macro-Tech 5000s.
No matter how I look at the numbers amongst the two (5000vz Vs I Tech 8000) I only see a 2 dB gain if I go the 8000 route. This is why I was requesting the peak-to-peak voltage of the 5000 for it was the last thing that may have brought something new to the table.
However, it has not. Many are promoting less current drawn from the receptacle is a plus. I do not operate my 5000s on 120 volts so trying to get 40 amps from a 120-volt line is not a factor.
My concern is how much voltage or current the I-tech 8000 has over the MA 5000vz when voltage and current from the AC is not limited.
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong with the following.
The MA 5000vz offers two slow blow 30 amp fuses per Transformer. In the MA 5000vz service manual, it states the amplifier can draw up to 80 amps on a 120-volt line feeding it a sine wave at full throttle.
The maximum current this amplifier will draw is 31.2 amps per transformer at 40% duty cycle. So, I should attain 7488 watts if I use a 120-volt line, drawing 62.4 amps.
The maximum current drawn by the I Tech 8000 is 33.9 amps in which, I assume would be 67.8 amps both channels driven. So, it should deliver 8136 watts.
The difference between the two (7488 oppose 8136) renders a 0.3 dB gain.
From a voltage standpoint, the MA 5000vz offers a peak voltage of 167.8, which equates to 7039 watts. The I-tech 8000 offers a peak of 200 volts (I watched an old Crown I-tech presentation that stated 200 volt is the peak and 400 is peak to peak). So, that is 10,000 watts.
The difference amongst the two (10,000 Vs 7039) offers a 1.5 dB gain.
Am I missing something here or the I-tech 8000 only offers a lighter package over the MA 5000vz based on my requirements?
Cheers!
I’ll explain the situation I am going through. At the moment, I own 6 Crown MA 5000vz amplifiers. They have served me well for nearly 14 years with no failures whatsoever. I am looking to purchase two more amplifiers and, figured I would give Crown’s new top of the line a try for many say they perform better than the 5000/5002 for their applications. In addition to having excellent luck with Crown amplifiers, pre-dating my Macro-Tech 5000s.
No matter how I look at the numbers amongst the two (5000vz Vs I Tech 8000) I only see a 2 dB gain if I go the 8000 route. This is why I was requesting the peak-to-peak voltage of the 5000 for it was the last thing that may have brought something new to the table.
However, it has not. Many are promoting less current drawn from the receptacle is a plus. I do not operate my 5000s on 120 volts so trying to get 40 amps from a 120-volt line is not a factor.
My concern is how much voltage or current the I-tech 8000 has over the MA 5000vz when voltage and current from the AC is not limited.
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong with the following.
The MA 5000vz offers two slow blow 30 amp fuses per Transformer. In the MA 5000vz service manual, it states the amplifier can draw up to 80 amps on a 120-volt line feeding it a sine wave at full throttle.
The maximum current this amplifier will draw is 31.2 amps per transformer at 40% duty cycle. So, I should attain 7488 watts if I use a 120-volt line, drawing 62.4 amps.
The maximum current drawn by the I Tech 8000 is 33.9 amps in which, I assume would be 67.8 amps both channels driven. So, it should deliver 8136 watts.
The difference between the two (7488 oppose 8136) renders a 0.3 dB gain.
From a voltage standpoint, the MA 5000vz offers a peak voltage of 167.8, which equates to 7039 watts. The I-tech 8000 offers a peak of 200 volts (I watched an old Crown I-tech presentation that stated 200 volt is the peak and 400 is peak to peak). So, that is 10,000 watts.
The difference amongst the two (10,000 Vs 7039) offers a 1.5 dB gain.
Am I missing something here or the I-tech 8000 only offers a lighter package over the MA 5000vz based on my requirements?
Cheers!
Weight may be the only real advantage.
There can also be issues related to the DSP processing (in any brand of amplifier). What happens if the amps (with their processing) are not available? Do you have extra crossovers? Do you have backup EQ? Do you have the time to re-patch and re-EQ?
What happens when the speakers the DSP is set up for are not available? Do you have extra crossovers? Do you have backup EQ? Do you have the time to re-patch and re-EQ?
So ar I haven't seen the need to buy any new amplifiers like this.
YMMV (your mileage may vary).
I own 40~50 amplifiers, the ones that get used the most are the Crest (mainly the CA series).
There can also be issues related to the DSP processing (in any brand of amplifier). What happens if the amps (with their processing) are not available? Do you have extra crossovers? Do you have backup EQ? Do you have the time to re-patch and re-EQ?
What happens when the speakers the DSP is set up for are not available? Do you have extra crossovers? Do you have backup EQ? Do you have the time to re-patch and re-EQ?
So ar I haven't seen the need to buy any new amplifiers like this.
YMMV (your mileage may vary).
I own 40~50 amplifiers, the ones that get used the most are the Crest (mainly the CA series).
Thank you very much.
I just wanted make sure I wasn't overlooking anything. Your confirmation proves I did not make an error on my calculations. I spent hours researching books, PDFs, Forums and, downloading various Java-script calculators to make sure the numbers were correct.
A lighter package with digital sound processing is not required for my needs. I've disabled the compressors and loudspeaker offset integration switches on my 5000s one decade ago. What I require is raw power, with no additional extras added.
In all honesty, I was eyeing the Macro-tech I 12000 for it offers the same power as the I-tech 8000 excluding the additional features. The reason I never mentioned that model and used the I-Tech 8000 for reverence, is due to the Macro-tech I 12000 being relatively new on the market whereas, the I Tech 8000 is nearly 5 years old in the industry.
After viewing my calculations I will buy two used Crown Macro-tech 5000vzs or a pair of Crest 9001s for it can achieve 7800 watts from a current standpoint. However, I am uncertain if the Crest 9001 can be internally wired to 240 volts. That will be the next venture in the weeks to come.
The reason I post this question here, and not ProSoundWeb are the following:
1. It would be my first post and, I've witness first time posters being ridiculed too many times when they post highly controversial topics. Especially when it comes to comparing old versus new amplifiers.
2. Too many of them are bias, and the politics based on the dealers in addition to the manufacture’s employees over there defending their product is unimaginable.
3. Those who tend to agree do so only to a point, for fear of being looked upon as the outsider and not in the "in crowd."
With DiyAudio the signal to noise ratio is very low. The majority are creating designs or repairing an item.
As for QSC, one just needs to download the power measurement chart of their new PL 380. I always knew they were light on bass duty compared to Crest and Crown. Once I calculated the current Vs watts ratio it all made sense. 
Cheers!
I just wanted make sure I wasn't overlooking anything. Your confirmation proves I did not make an error on my calculations. I spent hours researching books, PDFs, Forums and, downloading various Java-script calculators to make sure the numbers were correct.
A lighter package with digital sound processing is not required for my needs. I've disabled the compressors and loudspeaker offset integration switches on my 5000s one decade ago. What I require is raw power, with no additional extras added.
In all honesty, I was eyeing the Macro-tech I 12000 for it offers the same power as the I-tech 8000 excluding the additional features. The reason I never mentioned that model and used the I-Tech 8000 for reverence, is due to the Macro-tech I 12000 being relatively new on the market whereas, the I Tech 8000 is nearly 5 years old in the industry.
After viewing my calculations I will buy two used Crown Macro-tech 5000vzs or a pair of Crest 9001s for it can achieve 7800 watts from a current standpoint. However, I am uncertain if the Crest 9001 can be internally wired to 240 volts. That will be the next venture in the weeks to come.
The reason I post this question here, and not ProSoundWeb are the following:
1. It would be my first post and, I've witness first time posters being ridiculed too many times when they post highly controversial topics. Especially when it comes to comparing old versus new amplifiers.
2. Too many of them are bias, and the politics based on the dealers in addition to the manufacture’s employees over there defending their product is unimaginable.
3. Those who tend to agree do so only to a point, for fear of being looked upon as the outsider and not in the "in crowd."
With DiyAudio the signal to noise ratio is very low. The majority are creating designs or repairing an item.
As for QSC, one just needs to download the power measurement chart of their new PL 380.
I always knew they were light on bass duty compared to Crest and Crown. Once I calculated the current Vs watts ratio it all made sense. Cheers!
Nobody at Crest today (on holiday?).
Had someone look at a transformer for one. Has taps for 230V and 250V on the six-wire primary (eleven-wire secondary), assuming that is for 240V/50hz use. Would require a new switch/breaker for the front panel as well as a rewire of the primary and inrush limiters. Not a trivial task, but could be done.
Because of the $$$$ involved, you should consult Crest for the final word.
Had someone look at a transformer for one. Has taps for 230V and 250V on the six-wire primary (eleven-wire secondary), assuming that is for 240V/50hz use. Would require a new switch/breaker for the front panel as well as a rewire of the primary and inrush limiters. Not a trivial task, but could be done.
Because of the $$$$ involved, you should consult Crest for the final word.
nice .....
monster power conversation
i am so happy that most fo my PA application do no require that ammounts of power ....
( once i had to buy 4 monitors made from a specific manufacturer of china brand name KODA cause one of my rental costumers liked the sound and especially the high of this speaker ......
the speaker is equiped with 1" driver and 12" woofer ( kdw 121) rated at 160w max 220w and costed only 90 euro each )
4 of these monitors with four tripods ep2500 amplifier set brought to my company more money that the srx jbl 10.000 w system i own ......
strange ...isnt it ????
monster power conversation
i am so happy that most fo my PA application do no require that ammounts of power ....
( once i had to buy 4 monitors made from a specific manufacturer of china brand name KODA cause one of my rental costumers liked the sound and especially the high of this speaker ......
the speaker is equiped with 1" driver and 12" woofer ( kdw 121) rated at 160w max 220w and costed only 90 euro each )
4 of these monitors with four tripods ep2500 amplifier set brought to my company more money that the srx jbl 10.000 w system i own ......
strange ...isnt it ????
Re: nice .....
There is absolutely nothing strange about that at all mate. I have a smaller system that consist of two Peavey CS 800X amplifiers bridged mono for subs and, a Behringer EP 2500 for the tops that has been in use three to four times a month for the past 10 years (5 years on the Behringer). Blokes walk away speechless when they hear what those CS 800X can do on bass duty.
Smaller events held on a consecutive basis do make more money than toting a larger system being used once in a blue moon. However, you wouldn’t expect the smaller system to perform properly for large events. Well, some do and, actually embarrass them selves during the process.
I would say the quest for a lot of volume operating on adequate voltage calls for compromise. That compromise is in the sub-bass department where the amperage dictates the outcome.
As I mentioned to sakis, I use two Peavey CS 800X amplifiers in bridged mono mode on bass duty for smaller events. Two CS 800’s residing on a single 20-amp circuit will shut it down easily. The current drawn from each amplifier is, slightly under 13.4 amps under 4 ohms bridged mono mode. That would equate to 1600 watts per amplifier, 3200 watts total, and a snip below 26.8 amps on a continuous basis for bass duty.
The QSC PL 380 draws 41.6 amps. That is a total of 4992 watts peak! QSC proudly express this by saying the following in the PL 380 ratings: “On all models, full power at 2 ohms is automatically limited after several seconds to protect against prolonged component overloading and excess AC current consumption.” It also goes on to say: “The long-term thermally limited current draw of the PL 380 is approximately 30A.”
So, the amp will deliver 3600 watts long-term on bass duty. My, that is a far cry from 8000 watts wouldn’t you say? It may be a decent amplifier for midrange nonetheless.
Cheers!
sakis said:
There is absolutely nothing strange about that at all mate. I have a smaller system that consist of two Peavey CS 800X amplifiers bridged mono for subs and, a Behringer EP 2500 for the tops that has been in use three to four times a month for the past 10 years (5 years on the Behringer). Blokes walk away speechless when they hear what those CS 800X can do on bass duty.
Smaller events held on a consecutive basis do make more money than toting a larger system being used once in a blue moon. However, you wouldn’t expect the smaller system to perform properly for large events. Well, some do and, actually embarrass them selves during the process.
Kramerguy said:
I would say the quest for a lot of volume operating on adequate voltage calls for compromise. That compromise is in the sub-bass department where the amperage dictates the outcome.
As I mentioned to sakis, I use two Peavey CS 800X amplifiers in bridged mono mode on bass duty for smaller events. Two CS 800’s residing on a single 20-amp circuit will shut it down easily. The current drawn from each amplifier is, slightly under 13.4 amps under 4 ohms bridged mono mode. That would equate to 1600 watts per amplifier, 3200 watts total, and a snip below 26.8 amps on a continuous basis for bass duty.
The QSC PL 380 draws 41.6 amps. That is a total of 4992 watts peak! QSC proudly express this by saying the following in the PL 380 ratings: “On all models, full power at 2 ohms is automatically limited after several seconds to protect against prolonged component overloading and excess AC current consumption.” It also goes on to say: “The long-term thermally limited current draw of the PL 380 is approximately 30A.”
So, the amp will deliver 3600 watts long-term on bass duty. My, that is a far cry from 8000 watts wouldn’t you say? It may be a decent amplifier for midrange nonetheless.
Cheers!
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