Advices on First Crossover Design (VituixCAD2)

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So I may be confused about words, when you say "baffle" do you say front panel of the cabinet ? (in green on the picture below)


If yes then does that mean I would make measurements at first without the actual cabinet but just that front part ?



Pjr45Ns.png



The entire baffle: that's the entire front panel of the cabinet/box. ("green/mid-tweet integrated with black/woofer - single panel).

While you could split it up into two different cabinets as shown, I wouldn't.

When you go to measure for the mid. tweet, the full cabinet will provide more accurate results to the final result (..though the differences shouldn't be much different).
 
While you could split it up into two different cabinets as shown, I wouldn't.


Why not separated ? It would be easier to redo just that part if need to adjust mid/high placement or remove/change that Fostex that I see coming.



BTW I just received the Radian LT2 from Thomann, and they did not deliver the dipole version as requested, lucky me as usual, I wrote them back to see how they plan to correct the mistake.:(


Also got that giant round-over router bit today straight from USA, seem to be well made at first glance
 
IF you use both portions of the baffle for doing mid.-tweeter measurements, then yeah: should work well.

Can you remove the LT2's rear without damaging the terminals? (..that terminal damage is a problem with other cheaper planars like HiVi/Beston, but in the case of the Neo 3 it isn't a problem). If so, then you basically have the dipole version. I'd probably ask Radian 1st:

Support - Radian Audio



Wow, that was pretty fast shipping from the US. Good to hear that it arrived quickly and looks good.
 
Yes that's the plan I'll keep the top & bottom baffle joined


Well I have left a message to Radian as well now.
On inspection I guess that the back could be removed without impacting the terminals, it's sealed with a sort of black glue tough and I consider that last resort as I don't want to mess up anything and voiding the warranty at the same time.


Here a few pictures so you can see for yourself the assembly :
M8w4WrW.jpg
YfkIO1w.jpg
 
Yeah Radian replied that the dipole version is available to OEM/ODM only and they are pretty adamant about it :(
They also do not provide any information or support about removing the back as I expected.



So either I open them myself but I am not sure I want to take the risk prying them open, if they end up damaged I will be at a loss.


I could also send them back and try to get a pair of Beston RT002A from cadaudio.dk



Or I could swallow the bitter pill and keep the drivers as-is for another eventual project and find another option anyway


There has been many bumps, first the dead Scanspeak, then the dead LT plan and now this, I start to be a tad frustrated.
 
Is it a glue, or is it a plastic weld?

What I might do in this situation is simply remove/"shave"-off the top of the back-chamber first with a "coping" hand saw - which would allow me to inspect the interior chamber and joint. Even if you can't pry the glue/weld area off well: you've still got open-back at that point (though you'll likely need a bit of fiber/absorption around the remaining "wall" edges of the rear). ..Or of course, just try prying off the glue or weld joint with a hobby knife and take your chances.

-at around $60 (each I'm assuming), and without obvious problems from terminals, I'd say go for it. At worst you'll loose one driver and the time needed to get a new one.


CAUTION: when you start using these drivers - do NOT solder to the terminals, instead crimp connectors onto the ends of your wire (and then slide the connectors onto the terminals). Heating-up the terminals on these foil drivers just destroys the drivers.
 
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There has been many bumps, first the dead Scanspeak, then the dead LT plan and now this, I start to be a tad frustrated.

"Par for the course". :eek:

I had to "buy" my large inductor 4 times before I actually had it sent to me. :mad: (..twice from Erse and twice from Parts Express - with the 2nd one from Parts Express finally coming through, though no word when it shipped - it just arrived after a week and a half from that second order.)

By contrast that MCM order on the sub drivers arrived within 5 business days. And my average Amazon order (from Amazon) typically arrives within 3 business days (..without Prime of course). :)
 
Is it a glue, or is it a plastic weld?

What I might do in this situation is simply remove/"shave"-off the top of the back-chamber first with a "coping" hand saw - which would allow me to inspect the interior chamber and joint. Even if you can't pry the glue/weld area off well: you've still got open-back at that point. Or of course, just try prying off the glue or weld joint with a hobby knife and take your chances.

-at around $60 (each I'm assuming), and without obvious problems from terminals, I'd say go for it. At worst you'll loose one driver and the time needed to get a new one.

CAUTION: when you start using these drivers - do NOT solder to the terminals, instead crimp connectors onto the ends of your wire (and then slide the connectors onto the terminals). Heating-up the terminals on these foil drivers just destroys the drivers.


I have no Idea what is that black stuff, I assumed it was some kind of glue because I don't suppose they would melt plastic to cover the nuts & bolts.


Imagining sawing that tweeter, give me the feeling that I would saw one of my bone :eek:

Sawing that cover would introduce nasty plastic particles into that ribbon under don't you think?



Close, It's $55.22 per driver at the current exchange rate


Yes mental note about soldering Ribbon Drivers, same with AMT ?
 
"Par for the course". :eek:

I had to "buy" my large inductor 4 times before I actually had it sent to me. :mad: (..twice from Erse and twice from Parts Express - with the 2nd one from Parts Express finally coming through, though no word when it shipped - it just arrived after a week and a half from that second order.)

By contrast that MCM order on the sub drivers arrived within 5 business days. And my average Amazon order (from Amazon) typically arrives within 3 business days (..without Prime of course). :)


Yeah, I have to take that with an ounce of philosophy


But you did get you money back from the undelivered other orders right ?
The Radian delivery was nearly twenty five days to arrive, I explicitly asked for a confirmation it would be the dipole version, I suppose the guy at Thomann that confirmed didn't bother to check with Radian first, I'm curious to see the answer they will give me about that.



Am I expecting too much ? Maybe, when I work with customers I always am honest and do not leave room for false expectations.
 
I don't know about the AMT.. probably, but it's got a lot more surface area so perhaps less so?


It's just a plastic (ABS) cover - not very thick either. It really shouldn't be difficult to cut through that ABS. A lot easier than cutting through typical plumbing pipe, and that's not difficult either.

I wouldn't be worried about plastic filings: just tap and shake the driver a bit afterward and blow on it. Get a rub-buzz before hand along with an impedance trace. Any problems later will show up on the impedance trace.

Do the screws have anything to do with the cup/chamber we are interested in? I looked at your pic.s and it didn't seem that way.
 
But you did get you money back from the undelivered other orders right ?
The Radian delivery was nearly twenty five days to arrive, I explicitly asked for a confirmation it would be the dipole version, I suppose the guy at Thomann that confirmed didn't bother to check with Radian first, I'm curious to see the answer they will give me about that.



Am I expecting too much ? Maybe, when I work with customers I always am honest and do not leave room for false expectations.


-all 3 prior purchases they "backed-out" the order after about a week and never informed me of it. :mad: :smash: :D The 1st time it happened I waited about a month because I've known that Erse will say they have things "in-stock" (on website) and don't: and aren't exactly quick to wind-one for you after your purchase. This is the first (and second time) they've just backed-out the order.. Should have checked my credit card account more closely for that.. :eek:


Yeah, I'm sure Thomann and Radian will play the "blame game". :clown:

Thomann: "..we ordered it as a dipole."

Radian: "..we never accept dipole orders from Thomann."


I doubt they pay either contact-worker enough to be truly competent with special orders.

I get corn-holed just about every time I grab a fast-food meal! :eek: When I'm looking down at my wrong order, (..now inside the fast-food franchise), I then look at the pathetic worker behind the counter and have that mental up-take of:

"..oh, for f***-sake! ..no wonder my order went FUBAR." :p
 
I don't know about the AMT.. probably, but it's got a lot more surface area so perhaps less so?


It's just a plastic (ABS) cover - not very thick either. It really shouldn't be difficult to cut through that ABS. A lot easier than cutting through typical plumbing pipe, and that's not difficult either.

I wouldn't be worried about plastic filings: just tap and shake the driver a bit afterward and blow on it. Get a rub-buzz before hand along with an impedance trace. Any problems later will show up on the impedance trace.

Do the screws have anything to do with the cup/chamber we are interested in? I looked at your pic.s and it didn't seem that way.


The screws do not seem to have any relation to the plastic back, I will wait on Thomann answer to take any actions on those poor tweeters.



As for the DATS test, well...Is it bad doctor ?


85XluC8.png

ErmIQZN.png


* Piston Diameter = 0 mm
* f(s)= 1870.7 Hz
* R(e)= 5.0842 Ohms
* Z(max)= 5.8093 Ohms
* Q(ms)= 3.3371
* Q(es)= 23.399
* Q(ts)= 2.9206
* V(as)= 0 liters (0 cubic feet)
* L(e)= 0.10274 mH
* n(0)= 0 %
* SPL= 0 1W/1m
* M(ms)= 0 grams
* C(ms)= 0 mm/N
* BL= 0
* K(r)= 4.6316
* X(r)= 0.010046
* K(i)= 9e-07
* X(i)= 1.1012



* Piston Diameter = 0 mm
* f(s)= 1654.7 Hz
* R(e)= 4.7207 Ohms
* Z(max)= 5.4151 Ohms
* Q(ms)= 3.4484
* Q(es)= 23.443
* Q(ts)= 3.0062
* V(as)= 0 liters (0 cubic feet)
* L(e)= 0.10616 mH
* n(0)= 0 %
* SPL= 0 1W/1m
* M(ms)= 0 grams
* C(ms)= 0 mm/N
* BL= 0
* K(r)= 4.2678
* X(r)= 0.010654
* K(i)= 6e-07
* X(i)= 1.143
 
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-all 3 prior purchases they "backed-out" the order after about a week and never informed me of it. :mad: :smash: :D The 1st time it happened I waited about a month because I've known that Erse will say they have things "in-stock" (on website) and don't: and aren't exactly quick to wind-one for you after your purchase. This is the first (and second time) they've just backed-out the order.. Should have checked my credit card account more closely for that.. :eek:


Yeah, I'm sure Thomann and Radian will play the "blame game". :clown:

Thomann: "..we ordered it as a dipole."

Radian: "..we never accept dipole orders from Thomann."


I doubt they pay either contact-worker enough to be truly competent with special orders.

I get corn-holed just about every time I grab a fast-food meal! :eek: When I'm looking down at my wrong order, (..now inside the fast-food franchise), I then look at the pathetic worker behind the counter and have that mental up-take of:

"..oh, for f***-sake! ..no wonder my order went FUBAR." :p


Yeah micro management is sometimes necessary, one of my CEO friend said about work from his employees "You have to make them do, but not let them do" (Don't know if that translate OK from french)



Yeah I understand that salary isn't always great at some jobs, but I see that I don't care attitude from people that earn a lot more than I do, so not sure, I think it's state of mind.


I just learned a new expression again (corn-holed) :D
 
I just learned a new expression again (corn-holed) :D



Corn-holed, Money Shot; good lord you are learning some filthy English expressions. :p

-don't forget the US military acronym FUBAR. (..you know, because it happens to them so often that the phrase is common-place.) :D And you know WHY that is: because most of those enlisted would have other wise been behind that fast-food counter getting my order wrong. Again, you get what you pay for. ;)
 
Corn-holed, Money Shot; good lord you are learning some filthy English expressions. :p

-don't forget the US military acronym FUBAR. (..you know, because it happens to them so often that the phrase is common-place.) :D And you know WHY that is: because most of those enlisted would have other wise been behind that fast-food counter getting my order wrong. Again, you get what you pay for. ;)


Indeed I am, thank you Scott ;)


Yeah that one I knew from the FOO BAR in Linux and to the audio player I use


I have more than a few times seen in movies or documentaries the expression "excuse my french" is it commonly used ?
 
-"excuse (or more often: pardon) my french" is an occasional phrase used in "polite company" as a way of *"apologizing" (usually) after-the-fact for using common offensive language. Sometimes people will say it like: "pardon my french but that person is an a-hole".

*as-in: not much.

Of course "polite company" is rare these days, more like people you rarely interact with that you don't want to offend to much. ..ex. boss's boss, in-laws, etc..
 
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Hi Scott,


Sorry it's me now that was busy


Ho I see it's not a common practice then, so it's kind of a pass to say something a bit vulgar then :D


At my surprise Thomann have confirmed that they are able to get the right LT2 drivers with open back but it will take them 4 weeks to get them, I agreed to that proposition, I kind of expect there well be a disappointment again but I am curious, also if it work I find that solution neater than getting my Dremel out to hack the back panel. Let's see the outcome of that decision.



While I am at it I have a question about measurement of drivers in cabinet baffle, do you use the same eight than planned for the cabinet or do you try to get the driver at half the space between ceiling and floor?


If the later how do you conceive a rotating base that you can get so high up? Especially as the front panel has to be aligned to the axis of rotation, the cabinet weight is out of balance unless you have a very wide rotating base.



How do you design that ?
 
..do you use the same eight than planned for the cabinet or do you try to get the driver at half the space between ceiling and floor?

If the later how do you conceive a rotating base that you can get so high up? Especially as the front panel has to be aligned to the axis of rotation, the cabinet weight is out of balance unless you have a very wide rotating base.

How do you design that ?


-I'm not qualified to really tell you how to best measure loudspeakers (or just drivers in cabinets). :eek:


I do this on a platform outside. (..to get a free-field condition). Surrounding noise outside can be a problem, as can just finding the space to do it. :( (..even then I typically use some rockwool on the ground around the platform.)

While I've also done this inside my home, I've never done that well. The exception might be book-shelf speakers on a stand and getting as a low (in freq.) a good 1 meter measurement as possible. THAT involved moving it away from all reflective surfaces in a similar manner to the test baffle approach. ..and usually required quite a lot of pillows around the stand.

I'd look to Kimmosto's guides on this technique. ;)
 
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