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Old 14th June 2019, 06:42 PM   #211
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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I think we will have to call that one the "Money Shot".

-yeah, it looks very good!


I'm not surprised that the Fostex doesn't provide quite the treble-response you are looking for.. it's good for what it is, and for many people it's "good enough", but not for everyone (including me).
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Old 15th June 2019, 03:31 AM   #212
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Originally Posted by MrZoltan View Post
Nice I didn't knew that you could do that with sound-cards in virtual layer, are they shared when you used them like that or you need one for each VM ?
All the VM I work with does not even have sound on them (ESXi servers)


You are well equipped computer-wise it seem



The Chairs look so comfy and with a nice design too, so is it actual animal leather at the price ? The computer chair that I use at home with a bit of leather on them is not even comfortable but they cost the same price, I'm jealous man.
That carpet is a good choice too, I like the change of pattern and tone.

-it just passes-through to one VM. I also have a few network cards on that system that have SRI-OV that can do that (multiple VM's), but that's the only thing (..though I can transfer from VM to VM on that machine at incredible speed with a 10 gig network card that has SRI-OV.)


The chairs are just a cheap bonded leather (like woodchips for particle board).. but with more polyurethane (30/70). It's actually a good pliable material that breaths a little bit and wears-well except for strong abrasion (like a "gouge"). It's a cheap solution that works well for at least 3 hours. It's weird though that it doesn't feel like polyurethane or leather (..even bonded leather). I'd have greatly preferred a really good group of full-grain leather chairs (that met the HT requirements), but pricing for each starts around what I payed for all 5.

The carpet reminds me of a good airport lounge floor. I've had the samples up against the chair and it's a good match. The reason I went with carpet tiles is because they are tiles and it won't be a problem using them given the need to create a multi-layer surface and the need to pass-through wires.
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Last edited by ScottG; 15th June 2019 at 03:33 AM.
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Old 15th June 2019, 12:18 PM   #213
MrZoltan is offline MrZoltan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
I think we will have to call that one the "Money Shot".

-yeah, it looks very good!


I'm not surprised that the Fostex doesn't provide quite the treble-response you are looking for.. it's good for what it is, and for many people it's "good enough", but not for everyone (including me).

I have just learned a new expression in English


Btw, I can notice my serious handicap in math in this hobby, If you had the courage to instruct me on a particular subject, in the document "Texas Instrument Audio Characterization Primer" you shared me :

Quote:
The near-field frequency response is accurate for frequencies equal to and less than ka = 1, where k = 2 pi f/c (345 m/s) and a = piston radius (0.022). Given r = 0.022 m, solving for f gives us f = 2495.94 Hz. Therefore, the near-field measurements are roughly equivalent to free space measurements for frequencies up to 2.5 kHz. Our merge point for the two measurements should be

around 2.5 kHz.


I do not understand it, I have tried read "D. B. Keele_LF_Near-field_Measurement" but the formulae are even worst


Piston Radius : Is the diameter of the cone diaphragm with half of the suspension area divided by two, indicated here as "r" AND "a" but what do I do with that value? "Ka" What do I have to do with that? k+a, k-a, etc ?



2 x pi : is 6.283185


f/c : What does that mean ? I see the speed of sound indicated ok but why?


Very frustrating


Then i read "How to Achieve Accurate In-Room Quasi-Anechoic Free-Field Frequency Response Measurements Down to 10Hz By Jeff Bagby" but after that Is is still unclear how to know the best distance to measure from and at what frequency I should merge the two curves.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...TYnjmUQECJa-5F

Last edited by MrZoltan; 15th June 2019 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 15th June 2019, 12:33 PM   #214
MrZoltan is offline MrZoltan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
-it just passes-through to one VM. I also have a few network cards on that system that have SRI-OV that can do that (multiple VM's), but that's the only thing (..though I can transfer from VM to VM on that machine at incredible speed with a 10 gig network card that has SRI-OV.)
Yeah data transfer between VM in the virtual layer is great, but do you care? it's only small files no ?



What is the advantage to run REW in Linux instead of Windows?



Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
The chairs are just a cheap bonded leather (like woodchips for particle board).. but with more polyurethane (30/70). It's actually a good pliable material that breaths a little bit and wears-well except for strong abrasion (like a "gouge"). It's a cheap solution that works well for at least 3 hours. It's weird though that it doesn't feel like polyurethane or leather (..even bonded leather). I'd have greatly preferred a really good group of full-grain leather chairs (that met the HT requirements), but pricing for each starts around what I payed for all 5.

The carpet reminds me of a good airport lounge floor. I've had the samples up against the chair and it's a good match. The reason I went with carpet tiles is because they are tiles and it won't be a problem using them given the need to create a multi-layer surface and the need to pass-through wires.

Oh that is a bit misleading that they can call that leather, they should use pleather instead, but you are probably a bit safer with that considering the potential spill of cream cheese and salsa


Did you made the hollow floor with removable tiles also to run the cables ?
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Old 15th June 2019, 08:17 PM   #215
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Originally Posted by MrZoltan View Post
Yeah data transfer between VM in the virtual layer is great, but do you care? it's only small files no ?



What is the advantage to run REW in Linux instead of Windows?






Oh that is a bit misleading that they can call that leather, they should use pleather instead, but you are probably a bit safer with that considering the potential spill of cream cheese and salsa


Did you made the hollow floor with removable tiles also to run the cables ?

This is not the only use for the server: in fact the primary use is file-server (OpenMediaVault + Snapraid) and more particularly a router (with some unusual characteristics where VM to VM high-speed transfer can keep things moving along with low-latency more than high/(bit-rate)-speed transfer). Other uses include loudspeaker design and even a back-up gaming machine (..if modest: games with less demanding video-processing with only a 1060 video card). Of course for the most part none of those other uses will be "up" while the file server and router are active. Basically a multi-use modular system (..though with the negative that some of those processes won't be able to support full simultaneous operation: like multiple Windows OS's - even though remastered/"gutted" to a very small (for Windows) size.

Linux can be made a LOT smaller (than any Windows OS). When running from system memory that's key! One Windows system for Soundeasy and one system for REW simultaneously (while at least allowing for the router-system being "up").



A LOT of people commented on Sam's add as being misleading (and it is), but even at Sam's "retail" price what would a reasonable consumer expect: full grain Grade "A" leather with multiple hardwood supports and dense foam + wool etc..? Sam's Club did update the page to show the percentage (..but predictably it's not particularly "apparent"). Probably would still get punished in the EU though.. And yeah, sugary soft-drinks, buttery popcorn, chips and salsa, etc..

Though I haven't built anything yet, the floor/riser will have plenty of hollow-space for reasonably thin wiring for bass-shakers, sub-woofer, and the power to the chairs (for the power-recline). I'm not expecting to remove any of the carpet tiles for replacement (they have industrial glue on them), rather I wanted the "joint" between tiles to serve as a pass-through for the wiring (rather than cutting holes into a large piece of carpet and risking the structural integrity of the carpet). Like the chairs, the whole platform needs to "float"/be-isolated from the floor so that the bass-shakers do their thing without sinking energy to the floor, and that should leave me some room for wiring beneath it.
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Last edited by ScottG; 15th June 2019 at 08:26 PM.
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Old 15th June 2019, 08:36 PM   #216
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrZoltan View Post
Btw, I can notice my serious handicap in math in this hobby, If you had the courage to instruct me on a particular subject, in the document "Texas Instrument Audio Characterization Primer" you shared me :



I do not understand it, I have tried read "D. B. Keele_LF_Near-field_Measurement" but the formulae are even worst


Piston Radius : Is the diameter of the cone diaphragm with half of the suspension area divided by two, indicated here as "r" AND "a" but what do I do with that value? "Ka" What do I have to do with that? k+a, k-a, etc ?


Honestly my eyes glaze over when looking at math.

I just keep to the prose:

"Near-field measurements are taken where the distance between the driver and the microphone is as small as safely possible, that is, almost touching the dust cap of the driver diaphragm.."

Of course this also depends on excursion/"stroke" for a driver relative to the test signal and measurement set-up. (..where a subwoofer, though near-field (..and lower resulting excursion), might result in excursion that would come very close to or touch the microphone - which is obviously BAD).
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Last edited by ScottG; 15th June 2019 at 08:50 PM.
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Old 15th June 2019, 08:49 PM   #217
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrZoltan View Post
Thomann just confirmed that they can order the Bipole version, so I'll go for it, and I'll take the waveguides too just in case

Remember, no guarantees from me!


Of course I hope that it will work-out.

-and yes, the waveguide is a good idea, not just for the loading, but also the "off-set" (..phase relationship between it and the fullrange depending on the crossover).
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Old 15th June 2019, 11:41 PM   #218
MrZoltan is offline MrZoltan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
This is not the only use for the server: in fact the primary use is file-server (OpenMediaVault + Snapraid) and more particularly a router (with some unusual characteristics where VM to VM high-speed transfer can keep things moving along with low-latency more than high/(bit-rate)-speed transfer). Other uses include loudspeaker design and even a back-up gaming machine (..if modest: games with less demanding video-processing with only a 1060 video card). Of course for the most part none of those other uses will be "up" while the file server and router are active. Basically a multi-use modular system (..though with the negative that some of those processes won't be able to support full simultaneous operation: like multiple Windows OS's - even though remastered/"gutted" to a very small (for Windows) size.

Linux can be made a LOT smaller (than any Windows OS). When running from system memory that's key! One Windows system for Soundeasy and one system for REW simultaneously (while at least allowing for the router-system being "up").

Well that seem to me like a smart but very complicated setup, I sure hope you don't have an hardware failure with all that roles on that server
No wonder you are running after time with all that



Ha yeah true that footprint is a lot better to get everything in memory indeed


I glimpsed at that Soundeasy, I often read stuff on It's all about sound and audio systems | Audiojudgement.com, he explain things in a way my brain does not shutdown immediately, there was a few article about that software. It look very complex, an interface from another age with as many button squeezed together as possible, i'm sure it's powerful but the name uses that software does not seem to fit




Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
A LOT of people commented on Sam's add as being misleading (and it is), but even at Sam's "retail" price what would a reasonable consumer expect: full grain Grade "A" leather with multiple hardwood supports and dense foam + wool etc..? Sam's Club did update the page to show the percentage (..but predictably it's not particularly "apparent"). Probably would still get punished in the EU though.. And yeah, sugary soft-drinks, buttery popcorn, chips and salsa, etc..
True in EU it's more regulated about advertisement, probably wouldn't pass here, If I had seen a Seat at that price in a shop in EU I wouldn't be gullible enough to believe it's top quality leather, but in US many things seems a lot cheaper with a better service than it is here, VAT 21% on most goods does not help


I was interested in Emotiva Power Amplifier at some point, so I go see the website and I see the A700 (listed in EUR) at 522.11, I had a look at the listed distributor website here in Belgium and it was 899, I contacted Emotiva and they put the distributor in contact with me, they made a breakdown of all the taxes, duties, shipping and in the end they ended up with 10% gain for them.
I suppose they also have a better price than the listed price on Emotiva, but even then it's awful.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
Though I haven't built anything yet, the floor/riser will have plenty of hollow-space for reasonably thin wiring for bass-shakers, sub-woofer, and the power to the chairs (for the power-recline). I'm not expecting to remove any of the carpet tiles for replacement (they have industrial glue on them), rather I wanted the "joint" between tiles to serve as a pass-through for the wiring (rather than cutting holes into a large piece of carpet and risking the structural integrity of the carpet). Like the chairs, the whole platform needs to "float"/be-isolated from the floor so that the bass-shakers do their thing without sinking energy to the floor, and that should leave me some room for wiring beneath it.

Ho ok I believe I see what you mean, so you reserve a technical space between some tiles to pass cables with some king of sheath.

That floating platform, not sure I see how that is working, with some dampening materials in between the floor and the platform ?
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Old 15th June 2019, 11:47 PM   #219
MrZoltan is offline MrZoltan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
Honestly my eyes glaze over when looking at math.

I just keep to the prose:

"Near-field measurements are taken where the distance between the driver and the microphone is as small as safely possible, that is, almost touching the dust cap of the driver diaphragm.."

Of course this also depends on excursion/"stroke" for a driver relative to the test signal and measurement set-up. (..where a subwoofer, though near-field (..and lower resulting excursion), might result in excursion that would come very close to or touch the microphone - which is obviously BAD).

Somewhat glad I am not alone in that situation with math


But then how do you know when you where to merge the near-field to the far-field?

I have seen in a document of Kimmosto that you subtract around 20db from near-field to adjust for gain of the proximity in relation to the 1m but that only help to get them around same level.


How do you select you merging point frequency ?
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Old 16th June 2019, 12:07 AM   #220
MrZoltan is offline MrZoltan
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Remember, no guarantees from me!


Of course I hope that it will work-out.

-and yes, the waveguide is a good idea, not just for the loading, but also the "off-set" (..phase relationship between it and the fullrange depending on the crossover).

Too late Scott I have already contacted my lawyers


Anyway I have spend some time around to evaluate all the planar that could work as bipolar and didn't seen that many in that price range.


I sure hope we can make it work, in bipolar configuration the curve should go down a bit, how many dB I don't know yet, the 95dB datasheet specs are with the Wave-guide, recommended 3khz@12dB/Oct, If I need I can still attenuate a bit but will it be enough for that Fostex in between that I'm doubting


I have planned a few days to start that IEC baffle but the structure to hold it is still unclear, I know I will use some insert bolts for wood so I can dismantle the whole thing when not in use, but don't know yet the size of the wood I will use to build the structure and the exact shape to hold all in place, would be more easy if I had a space to leave it there.


I'll probably limit the size to the 4x4 and then think how I'll integrate the rest to enlarge it if need be, Nearfield measurement should help me getting something usable (Hope so)
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