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Old 8th December 2019, 12:13 AM   #1691
Ultima Thule is offline Ultima Thule  Europe
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^^ Thanks, as soon as I get a new computer with Windows (currently running Linux) I will be happy trying out what VCAD can offer.

If I may bring forth my objectives for improving VACD according to the aforementioned feature in previous post, it would be for instance beneficial for people with limited financial means as buying and trying out a lot of filter components for loudspeaker projects can quickly grow considerably on the financial burden, I also think it may help having an intuitively "visual" concept in form of adjustable frequency response translated into real component values, some people are very visually minded but "blind" when they have mathematical numbers before their eyes while other are of the opposite nature, ie. there's no right and wrong from a pedagogical point of view.

However, don't feel pushed, it's merely a wish, hopefully this now planted seed may sprout maybe some times later in the future, or perhaps already for Christmas, after all Santa Claus is from Finland!

Last edited by Ultima Thule; 8th December 2019 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 8th December 2019, 06:03 AM   #1692
kimmosto is offline kimmosto  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultima Thule View Post
it would be for instance beneficial for people with limited financial means as buying and trying out a lot of filter components for loudspeaker projects can quickly grow considerably on the financial burden
Existing features already provides that. I have designed speakers ready at once without listening a second (already with version 1), and made totally different XO versions without having speakers at home anymore. That has nothing to do with algorithm (iteration/learning) optimizer uses and how it starts; by button or automatically when target is moved or value of some non-optimized component is modified. It's "just" combination of information in measurements, graphs and designer's understanding how they should be with selected acoustical concept and components. Certain UI for value setting does not provide that. Just compatibility and speed with UI style one could prefer.

For example XMachina has machine learning features, and it works on Linux too. That could provide some features you prefer, but something relevant could also be missing.

Last edited by kimmosto; 8th December 2019 at 06:09 AM.
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Old 8th December 2019, 10:22 AM   #1693
kimmosto is offline kimmosto  Finland
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Main problem at the moment is how to motivate users to measure 0-90 deg or 0-180 deg off-axis, or limit simulated sector with program so that all simulated directions are covered by measurement data.
Now it is possible that the biggest off-axis angle of some drivers is dropped out of simulation if driver is not at the speaker's origin (X,Y <> 0,0). Program does not calculate response if driver is located so that exit angle from driver to virtual microphone exceeds the biggest measured off-axis angle, because response cannot be interpolated from measurement data. That causes error also to power response and DI.
For example if X or Y is -200 mm and listening distance is 2000 mm, we would need off-axis measurement to 49 deg to simulate 45 deg:

Click the image to open in full size.

Only working method at the moment is to measure full 0-180 deg, or 0-90 deg and verify that drivers' Z >= 0 mm which ensures that virtual mic does not go to unmeasured shadow sector while simulating responses within angle limits of measured sector.
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Old 8th December 2019, 11:11 PM   #1694
Ultima Thule is offline Ultima Thule  Europe
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Thanks again Kimmo for explaining, I now have to get my Windows computer and start digging into it and understand better what it can do for me.
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Old 8th December 2019, 11:57 PM   #1695
BYRTT is offline BYRTT  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultima Thule View Post
^^ Thanks, as soon as I get a new computer with Windows (currently running Linux) I will be happy trying out what VCAD can offer.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultima Thule View Post
Thanks again Kimmo for explaining, I now have to get my Windows computer and start digging into it and understand better what it can do for me.
Hi, admit myself is on Windows and know not much about Linux, but i wonder if you noticed it looks VituixCAD run on Linux with Wine for many other members and there's a pdf file available on the website as seen in below visual highlighted with yellow mark.

Link: Software
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File Type: png UT_1.PNG (879.1 KB, 88 views)
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Old 9th December 2019, 06:37 AM   #1696
AllenB is online now AllenB  Australia
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What about when speaker is point source and this doesn't apply? Can interpolation extrapolate the properties of higher order modes? Can it be turned off?
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Old 9th December 2019, 07:38 AM   #1697
kimmosto is offline kimmosto  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
What about when speaker is point source and this doesn't apply?
Then all loaded responses within range specified in Options window are included in simulation and visible in directivity graph as they should be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
Can interpolation extrapolate the properties of higher order modes? Can it be turned off?
Logic needed for interpolation is already complex, and adding some workarounds with assumptions would make it even more complex and impossible to estimate how much error is created.

So the latest build of rev. 2.0.33.3 (2019-12-09) is done like this:
* Off-axis direction is not included in simulation if measurement data of any driver does not cover angle required for response interpolation.

Responses visible in directivity graph are now okay, and all responses included in power, listening window, early reflections, DI and early DI contain all drivers in the crossover.
But few responses typically in vertical plane could be missing if measurement data is not full 0-180 deg or 0-90 deg when half space is selected. This is easy to test with typical 3-way by loading responses within 0-50 deg only to any driver, and selecting 5 deg angle step in Options. 1-2 responses to positive vertical angles are not visible anymore, but 1-2 extra (-55 deg) responses could be visible to negative angles.
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Old 9th December 2019, 10:11 AM   #1698
AllenB is online now AllenB  Australia
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Quote:
simulated directions ... interpolation
What is it for?
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Old 9th December 2019, 10:50 AM   #1699
kimmosto is offline kimmosto  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
What is it for?
Are you asking why frequency responses to simulated directions are interpolated from measurement data and not used as is?
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Old 9th December 2019, 11:19 AM   #1700
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Why are angles interpolated?
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