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Old 3rd August 2019, 01:58 PM   #1381
mbrennwa is offline mbrennwa  Switzerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmosto View Post
...Each driver is measured at 1000 mm from center point of driver on baffle surface.
...and...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrennwa View Post
I have some questions related to positioning the microphone for far-field measurements (or which "convention" is implemented in Vituix)... when it comes to off-axis measurements (both vertical and horizontal), what is the Vituix convention...
So... for off-axis measurements of the individual drivers in a multiway loudspeaker, what is the Vituix convention for the location of the axes of rotation? For a loudspeaker with horizontally aligned drivers, I guess the axis of rotation for the horizontal off-axis meausurements would be the common x-axis center of all drivers. But what if the drivers are not horizontally aligned? What about the vertical off-axis measurements?

According to the above rule "Each driver is measured at 1000 mm from center point of driver on baffle surface", the axes of rotation (both horizontal and vertical) are at the individual x/y centres of the individual drivers (and z=0 on the baffle). At least that that's how I did my measurements for use with Vituix. Can somebody confirm this?
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Old 3rd August 2019, 03:22 PM   #1382
kimmosto is offline kimmosto  Finland
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Documentation says:

Quote:
• Elevation of mic is at the center point of driver under test i.e. mic and driver have the same Y-coordinate in mm. Turn speaker back/front if front baffle is tilted.
Exception: Mid and tweeter can be measured at common mic elevation = average Y of center points if drivers are small and close to each other, baffle is straight (non-stepped) and vertical plane is not measured i.e. drivers are circular and hor/ver difference in baffle diffraction is ignored on purpose.
• Rotation center on X-axis while off-axis measurement sequence is at the center point of driver under test.
• Rotation center on Z-axis while off-axis measurement sequence:
a) Rotation center on Z axis is common for all drivers if drivers are installed in straight non-stepped baffle. Rotation center is typically on surface of front baffle for the tweeter. Z=0 mm for all drivers in crossover simulation regardless of difference between baffle surface and acoustical center.
b) Rotation center on Z-axis varies with stepped baffle. Drivers on each baffle level has own rotation center on Z-axis. Distance from each baffle level to microphone must be constant (1000 mm). Differences on Z-axis are entered to the simulator as Z mm of the driver, e.g. tweeter Z=0 mm, mid range Z= 20 mm, woofer Z= 100 mm.
Quote:
Each driver instance added in the crossover can be provided with location relative to “design origin”. Location is entered to Parameters grid. Design origin is typically perpendicular endpoint of listening axis on front baffle surface. X [mm] is horizontal coordinate of center point; negative to left and positive to right. Y [mm] is vertical coordinate; negative down and positive up. Z [mm] is horizontal distance coordinate; negative closer to mic and positive further from mic.
Horizontal rotation R [deg] or vertical inclination T [deg] of drivers is also supported, but angle should follow measured directions because VituixCAD does not interpolate frequency responses between off axis angles. Rotation R [deg] is positive to rightcounter-clockwise from top view, and inclination T [deg] is positive to up.
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Old 3rd August 2019, 03:57 PM   #1383
2MuchRiceMakesMeSick is offline 2MuchRiceMakesMeSick  United States
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My suggestion was and still is to write it in a language and framework that works across ALL major platforms. My original offer was to do just that for you (what I do professionally) You will learn a tremendous amount by doing this and will become a much better programmer as a result.

Not sure what exactly you are talking about on the licensing because linux is basically royalty free (so is QT unless you are reselling it then you pay for support)

The good news is that this may just be the catalyst I need to develop such an application

I do appreciate you helping the community and out of respect for the work you have put in I wont be participating in this thread any longer. Good luck with the project.
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Old 3rd August 2019, 06:27 PM   #1384
b_force is offline b_force
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2MuchRiceMakesMeSick View Post
Java is too darn slow. Why drive a yugo when you have a Ferrari ready to go. C++ ports to anything with ease and is the clear choice for any professional application. C# is a managed memory language and is slow and a memory hog. Dont even get me started on Microsoft's garbage collector. There is a reason that 99% of all large applications are still written in c++.

I guess I just prefer to talk directly to the metal
I found this a very theoretical type of argument.

There are programs that are many orders of magnitude bigger and more complex then VituixCAD and running very well and very smooth in Java.
So if that's a fact, I don't see why this can't?
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Old 3rd August 2019, 07:08 PM   #1385
mbrennwa is offline mbrennwa  Switzerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmosto View Post
Documentation says:
• Elevation of mic is at the center point of driver under test i.e. mic and driver have the same Y-coordinate in mm.
...
• Rotation center on X-axis while off-axis measurement sequence is at the center point of driver under test.
Alright, this seems to be consistent with how I did the horizontal off-axis measurements (see my previous post VituixCAD) -- but I am not sure I understand this correctly. Can you confirm?

What about vertical off-axis measurements? Same story with X and Y transposed?
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Old 3rd August 2019, 07:48 PM   #1386
kimmosto is offline kimmosto  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2MuchRiceMakesMeSick View Post
(what I do professionally) You will learn a tremendous amount by doing this and will become a much better programmer as a result.
I've done programming few decades now - both professionally and hobby. Best days are probably over, but some learning might be possible. I have studied and tested some basic features of wxWidgets (3.1.2). Conversion looks possible, but I'd like to study new frameworks other/better than converting source package of 4.9 MB. Especially knowing that I won't need the result for my speaker projects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2MuchRiceMakesMeSick View Post
Not sure what exactly you are talking about on the licensing
Cross-platform VituixCAD may not be freeware. Source stays here and I do what I do...
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Old 3rd August 2019, 08:05 PM   #1387
kimmosto is offline kimmosto  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrennwa View Post
What about vertical off-axis measurements? Same story with X and Y transposed?
See Rotation: Horizontal plane and Vertical plane images on page 3 in VituixCAD Measurement Preparations.pdf. That was drawn for those who have difficulties with my bad English. Is that drawing also bad or do you have old version in cache? Should be resision 2019-05-11.
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Old 3rd August 2019, 09:02 PM   #1388
LightBit is offline LightBit  Slovenia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmosto View Post
Subscriptions of commercial version starting at $459/month. Why?
You don't need that. You can sell closed source applications using Qt (LGPL).
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Old 3rd August 2019, 09:05 PM   #1389
BYRTT is offline BYRTT  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrennwa View Post
Alright, this seems to be consistent with how I did the horizontal off-axis measurements (see my previous post VituixCAD) -- but I am not sure I understand this correctly. Can you confirm?

What about vertical off-axis measurements? Same story with X and Y transposed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmosto View Post
See Rotation: Horizontal plane and Vertical plane images on page 3 in VituixCAD Measurement Preparations.pdf. That was drawn for those who have difficulties with my bad English. Is that drawing also bad or do you have old version in cache? Should be resision 2019-05-11.
Pretty sure those visual helpers was created/added especially for mbrennwa and claimed understood in past from post 813 up to 824 or more, so really kind of don't know why subject or the existence of a "VituixCAD Measurement Preparations.pdf" guide is brought up to surface lately
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Old 4th August 2019, 03:05 AM   #1390
JMB is offline JMB  United States
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Kimmo has been extremely generous in sharing his wonderful software and in making modifications in response to requests. It feels like folks here are pushing the issue of him expanding it to other platforms. In my opinion, the question has been asked and now it is up to Kimmo to decide if he wants to do so. I strongly encourage people to now leave it to Kimmo and be thankful for what we have. No offense is meant here as I understand the enthusiasm to have this wonderful software run under various platforms, but please don't look a gift horse in the mouth either.
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