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Old 21st July 2019, 12:37 PM   #1351
johnsurnamerobinson is offline johnsurnamerobinson
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Just to clarify the point-I was the R&D manager of a medium sized company in London and yes we wrote our own software but I had NOBODY on my team who was able to do a project like this (In depth Acoustics and software writing).Almost single handed I know thre were a few helpers.Yes its not open source.

Last edited by johnsurnamerobinson; 21st July 2019 at 12:41 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 21st July 2019, 06:50 PM   #1352
kimmosto is offline kimmosto  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsurnamerobinson View Post
Problem seems is that I was trying to work `theoretically` rather fron actual measurements.
Recommended procedure is to use measurement data because it's decade(s) more accurate and faster than trying to create reliable/accurate simulated acoustical response data. Common user does not have access to parameters needed for decent acoustical simulation of any kind of radiator so that would be unpractical i.e. quite useless approach.
But VituixCAD does not force you to measure. Response data can be produced with Enclosure tool, Diffraction tool, SPL Trace or any external simulator which is able to export frequency or impulse responses (though it's probably inaccurate and valid only for preliminary studies).
See post #1283.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 09:26 AM   #1353
mbrennwa is offline mbrennwa  Switzerland
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I have some questions related to positioning the microphone for far-field measurements (or which "convention" is implemented in Vituix). I guess the answers should be in the manual (downloaded from the Vituix CAD website), but I could not find it, so please bear with me... or just tell me the page number of the manual so I can look it up.

For a multiway loudspeaker, what is the convention adopted in Vituix regarding the height of the microphone (for far-field measurements)?

For example, how do I place the microphone for on-axis measurements of the drivers in a three way loudspeaker with the three drivers stacked on top of each other?
  • Do I set the microphone at the level of the center of the tweeter for the tweeter measurement, at the midrange level for the midrange measurements, and at the woofer level for the woofer?
  • Or do I set the microphone at some level that is "centered between the three drivers"?
  • Something else?

Also, when it comes to off-axis measurements (both vertical and horizontal), what is the Vituix convention regarding the direction of the angles (positive vs. negative anglues)? I remember we had this discussion before, but I can't find it anymore, and it seems this did not make it into the manual.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 09:40 AM   #1354
MrZoltan is offline MrZoltan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrennwa View Post
I have some questions related to positioning the microphone for far-field measurements (or which "convention" is implemented in Vituix). I guess the answers should be in the manual (downloaded from the Vituix CAD website), but I could not find it, so please bear with me... or just tell me the page number of the manual so I can look it up.

For a multiway loudspeaker, what is the convention adopted in Vituix regarding the height of the microphone (for far-field measurements)?

For example, how do I place the microphone for on-axis measurements of the drivers in a three way loudspeaker with the three drivers stacked on top of each other?
  • Do I set the microphone at the level of the center of the tweeter for the tweeter measurement, at the midrange level for the midrange measurements, and at the woofer level for the woofer?
  • Or do I set the microphone at some level that is "centered between the three drivers"?
  • Something else?

Also, when it comes to off-axis measurements (both vertical and horizontal), what is the Vituix convention regarding the direction of the angles (positive vs. negative anglues)? I remember we had this discussion before, but I can't find it anymore, and it seems this did not make it into the manual.

Hi Mbrennwa,


I see these informations in page 4 of the "VituixCAD Measurement Preparations.pdf" in Basic Rules


Here is the link if needed : https://kimmosaunisto.net/Software/V...eparations.pdf

Hope It help

Last edited by MrZoltan; 22nd July 2019 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 09:52 AM   #1355
bartosz37 is offline bartosz37
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Check #1287 post and the posts around it. I was asking same question not that long ago.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 12:43 PM   #1356
JMB is offline JMB  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrennwa View Post
I have some questions related to positioning the microphone for far-field measurements (or which "convention" is implemented in Vituix). I guess the answers should be in the manual (downloaded from the Vituix CAD website), but I could not find it, so please bear with me... or just tell me the page number of the manual so I can look it up.

For a multiway loudspeaker, what is the convention adopted in Vituix regarding the height of the microphone (for far-field measurements)?

For example, how do I place the microphone for on-axis measurements of the drivers in a three way loudspeaker with the three drivers stacked on top of each other?
  • Do I set the microphone at the level of the center of the tweeter for the tweeter measurement, at the midrange level for the midrange measurements, and at the woofer level for the woofer?
  • Or do I set the microphone at some level that is "centered between the three drivers"?
  • Something else?

Also, when it comes to off-axis measurements (both vertical and horizontal), what is the Vituix convention regarding the direction of the angles (positive vs. negative anglues)? I remember we had this discussion before, but I can't find it anymore, and it seems this did not make it into the manual.
Typically, one would be looking to measure ear level along the listening axis and then off axis would be at that same height. This is because the primary design is addressing the sound arrival at your ears. This might be on the tweeter axis (tweeter height level) or between the tweeter and midrange depending upon your design and loudspeaker placement. As you change your listening position (up or down), a certain amount of lobing will be introduced between the drivers; this is inescapable. Another important thing to keep in mind is that you want to assure that your measuring distance allows for adequate driver integration as this will provide you a more accurate representation of the farfield reproduction. Realize that the more vertical rotation at each horizontal rotation that you have, the closer you will bet to a true power representation; but this becomes impractical so we do our best to emulate this with the horizontal rotation and then perhaps a limited number of vertical rotational measurements.

The common convention horizontally is that from the listening position or measurement position looking at the loudspeaker, your left is labeled as negative degrees and your right is positive.

Hope this helps,
Jay

Last edited by JMB; 22nd July 2019 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 06:34 PM   #1357
mbrennwa is offline mbrennwa  Switzerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrZoltan View Post
Hi Mbrennwa,


I see these informations in page 4 of the "VituixCAD Measurement Preparations.pdf" in Basic Rules


Here is the link if needed : https://kimmosaunisto.net/Software/V...eparations.pdf

Hope It help
Thanks!

Why is this not in the manual but in a separate document? I think it would be a lot easier if everything was in one single document (the manual).
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Old 22nd July 2019, 06:51 PM   #1358
MrZoltan is offline MrZoltan
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Could be because measurements are not done in VituixCAD but with other software's and this other document is a guideline how to get data to work with


For me it make sense to separate the manual describing in detail all the functions of VituixCAD and the guides for measurements in other softwares or in general terms


One way or another I am glad Kimmo provided that in addition of the user manual.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 08:27 PM   #1359
mbrennwa is offline mbrennwa  Switzerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrZoltan View Post
Could be because measurements are not done in VituixCAD but with other software's and this other document is a guideline how to get data to work
Yeah, but the data must correspond to the conventions implemented in VituixCAD. The measurement geometry assumed by VituixCAD is crucial information that should be in the main documentation manual. Skimming through the manual, I didn't realize there is another document that has the info I was looking for, so I simply assumed the information is not available in the documentation.
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Old 23rd July 2019, 05:41 AM   #1360
kimmosto is offline kimmosto  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrennwa View Post
The measurement geometry assumed by VituixCAD is crucial information that should be in the main documentation manual.
Multiple measurement help documents is needed in order support different measurements programs; CLIO, ARTA, REW etc. because data processing is different for all of those.

This is probably repeating, but main program does not require certain measurement geometry. Each driver instance in XO has X, Y, Z, R, T parameters which affect to calculation of delay/phase and SPL attenuation, and selection of off-axis angle measurement from response list in Drivers tab. User can measure all drivers at single elevation in horizontal plane and single Xmm in vertical plane, but then all drivers should be parameterized X=0, Y=0, Z=0, R=0, T=0 in order to disable geometry calculation by the simulator. In addition, user have to scale SPL and delay differences between drivers if measurement distance is not equal to simulated listening distance.

Drivers' geometry parameters are shortly explained in user manual. Really easy to test how location (X,Y,Z) affects to phase response and SPL at listening distance (set in Options). Just single wire XO is needed.

Better user manual is possible for sure, but I will not do big changes to document structure as long as German translation is not done. It's delayed since 2018-10-05. One possibility is to move forward without German version.
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