So I used to have Clio 7 and on that you would manually type in a time delay to remove the time of flight from a measurement. This would fix phase an allow it to be used in crossover design software.
I now have Clio Pocket. Pocket doesn't seem to have the same phase processing capability to determine the exact time of flight visually. The only instructions are to select Auto Half Hann processing. Is this doing the same thing? What is Half Hann? How do I get measurements with correct phase to export?
Sadly, compared to Clio 7 the Pocket manual is horrible and reads like a bad translation.
Thanks!
I now have Clio Pocket. Pocket doesn't seem to have the same phase processing capability to determine the exact time of flight visually. The only instructions are to select Auto Half Hann processing. Is this doing the same thing? What is Half Hann? How do I get measurements with correct phase to export?
Sadly, compared to Clio 7 the Pocket manual is horrible and reads like a bad translation.
Thanks!
Hello!
I've answered your question with my first ever YouTube video.
Link: Removing TOF Delay from a CLIO Pocket Measurement
Please give it a look and fire away with other questions you may have.
I've answered your question with my first ever YouTube video.
Link: Removing TOF Delay from a CLIO Pocket Measurement
Please give it a look and fire away with other questions you may have.
Hi LHolland,
Thanks a lot for the video. It will help me as the subject is related to a thread I started some weeks ago
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/equi...-distance-sensing-cell-front.html#post4822436
Regards.
Thanks a lot for the video. It will help me as the subject is related to a thread I started some weeks ago
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/equi...-distance-sensing-cell-front.html#post4822436
Regards.
It was a first for me and not as painful as I thought it would be. I don't know anything about video editing yet, and if I did I'd correct the mistake I made about the 48kHz sample rate resolution of 0.028ms instead of the correct 0.0208ms.
Actually, I'm going to redo the this video today because I thought of a way to illustrate the concept more clearly.
BTW, I did this on a Mac and I only use Windows for the majority of audio related geekery that requires it. Thus I don't know Windows that well and would love a referral to a really good video screen capture program for that OS that doesn't hog resources. Thanks!
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I've updated the video including group delay concepts for a more complete perspective on removing time-of-fight from acoustic measurements:
Link: Removing TOF Delay from a CLIO Pocket Measurement
Link: Removing TOF Delay from a CLIO Pocket Measurement
Thanks for this revision. Very clear.
I hope a new version of Clio Pocket software will allow direct typing of a delay value in ms.
Thank you! BTW every time someone mentions something that can improve CLIO FW or CLIO Pocket, the owners of Audiomatica in Italy hear about it from me. I just sent them two full pages of ideas to improve CLIO Pocket that I came up with and your suggestion will be in an email to them today. I should have thought of that - good idea.
One encouraging observation in this regard is that I was working with another customer a few weeks ago with a laser displacement measurement combined with an impedance measurement to derive TS parameters in CLIO FW. No added mass or box with a given volume for compliance - you just measure the raw driver in free air - pretty cool. I thought of a more flexible way to combine the impedance data with the laser data and they agreed and promised that the next minor update (v11.xx) to the software would include that feature.
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PS: Be sure to read the notes I include with these YouTube entries by clicking "SHOW MORE" under the video. Audio is a sport full of necessary compromises and I try to cover those related to the instruction included in the videos.
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I don't have Pocket so cannot provide direct answer, but are measurement binary files of Pocket compatible with mls files of full CLIO 10-12?
If yes, VituixCAD is able to do everything from mls to txt/frd.
If no, I could add support of Pocket measurement files to VituixCAD to make conversion of multiple measurements easier and provide more options than standard CLIO versions have.
If yes, VituixCAD is able to do everything from mls to txt/frd.
If no, I could add support of Pocket measurement files to VituixCAD to make conversion of multiple measurements easier and provide more options than standard CLIO versions have.
Hi,
I have saved some Langston Holland documents. Among them there is a video about the time of fly removal. Send me a private message with your email address.
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^I don't know about "people" or majority but basically we need to assume that speed of sound stays constant and try to keep measurement conditions quite stable at least within measurements of single project.
Sound flying time from radiator's mechanical reference point to microphone is removed by setting reference time for phase response calculation. With CLIO, reference time is initially set with start point of time window. That usually leaves some extra delay to phase response which can be removed with MLS Processing tool: Time. Method needs some calculation and notes to be "controlled" within multiple measurements of single radiator and project and many projects during the years.
Distance measurement with tape is not always easy either so controlled phase measurement could be challenging.
VituixCAD includes Convert IR to FR tool which makes reference time setting much easier also with CLIO mls files. We can set distance from radiator's mechanical reference point to microphone directly in millimeters to maintain decent control to phase response for years (assuming that speed of sound and signal processing delay stay constant).
Or we can set reference time in milliseconds, samples or millimeters manually or with cursor for single project, just to include timing differences of different radiators in measurement data and show typically tweeter's response as close to minimum phase as possible to get group delay=0ms at top octave in the graphs of simulation.
Measurement instructions for this method and tool are written for ARTA, but it's compatible with CLIO 10-12. In both cases measurement program just saves binary (mls/pir) files during measurement sequences, and Convert IR to FR tool take care of the rest with guidance of user.
Sound flying time from radiator's mechanical reference point to microphone is removed by setting reference time for phase response calculation. With CLIO, reference time is initially set with start point of time window. That usually leaves some extra delay to phase response which can be removed with MLS Processing tool: Time. Method needs some calculation and notes to be "controlled" within multiple measurements of single radiator and project and many projects during the years.
Distance measurement with tape is not always easy either so controlled phase measurement could be challenging.
VituixCAD includes Convert IR to FR tool which makes reference time setting much easier also with CLIO mls files. We can set distance from radiator's mechanical reference point to microphone directly in millimeters to maintain decent control to phase response for years (assuming that speed of sound and signal processing delay stay constant).
Or we can set reference time in milliseconds, samples or millimeters manually or with cursor for single project, just to include timing differences of different radiators in measurement data and show typically tweeter's response as close to minimum phase as possible to get group delay=0ms at top octave in the graphs of simulation.
Measurement instructions for this method and tool are written for ARTA, but it's compatible with CLIO 10-12. In both cases measurement program just saves binary (mls/pir) files during measurement sequences, and Convert IR to FR tool take care of the rest with guidance of user.
^..and CLIO Pocket CRP file support is done to VituixCAD Convert IR to FR tool so adequate features to remove sound flying time in a controlled way (not by minimum phase extraction!), include timing differences of different drivers/radiators to measurement data, convert possibly tens...hundreds off-axis measurements of whole speaker project to txt/frd within a minute, use other than Hanning window to improve accuracy at LF etc. are available for also Pocket users.
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