Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Software Tools SPICE, PCB CAD, speaker design and measurement software, calculators

Better power MOSFET models in LTSpice
Better power MOSFET models in LTSpice
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 23rd December 2015, 01:35 AM   #131
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
Old guy with soldering iron
diyAudio Member
 
bwaslo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Portland, Oregon!
Better power MOSFET models in LTSpice
Thanks, Bob.

The part in question is being used in an input stage (voltage gain with wide drain voltage range, unusual, I know). A somewhat low capacitance part for a high voltage MOSFET, but it does seem to vary a large amount in the first few volts. The data sheet shows the capacitance getting pretty rough when terminal voltage differences get low. I guess that's what you mean by 'close to clipping'? I have found that giving the part more than ten or so volts to work with does drop the measured distortion a lot.
__________________
[W9MJE] Horn spreadsheet SynergyCalc/; SmallSyns SmallSyns;
Crossover design Xsim; Depot diffusor super-easy diffusors
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2016, 12:49 AM   #132
2 picoDumbs is offline 2 picoDumbs  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
2 picoDumbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Has anyone got 2sk2013 2sj313 or IRF610 IRF9610?
__________________
"If you leave this point unattached to some circuitry, an ideal constant current source will emit a small lightning bolt which will travel until it connects to something." Nelson Pass
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2016, 08:25 AM   #133
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
R.I.P.
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Scottish Borders
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post
Thanks, Bob.

The part in question is being used in an input stage (voltage gain with wide drain voltage range, unusual, I know). A somewhat low capacitance part for a high voltage MOSFET, but it does seem to vary a large amount in the first few volts. The data sheet shows the capacitance getting pretty rough when terminal voltage differences get low. I guess that's what you mean by 'close to clipping'? I have found that giving the part more than ten or so volts to work with does drop the measured distortion a lot.
JLH published a Power Amplifier where the outputs were fed from a higher voltage than that fed to the input stage.

Many have queried this and suggested that JLH got his numbers swapped around. JLH was maybe making use of higher Vce across the outputs when the input stage was just at the point of clipping.
JLH was very much into combined measurement and subjective sound quality testing.
__________________
regards Andrew T.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2016, 08:30 AM   #134
jan.didden is offline jan.didden  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
jan.didden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Westende Resort, BE coast
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post
Has anyone any tips on how to model the nonlinear capacitance of MOSFETS? This is the behaviour I'd like to include (of the Supertex DN2530):
Click the image to open in full size.

Here is the model I've been using for it:
.MODEL DN2530 NMOS (LEVEL=3 RS=0.25 NSUB=5.0E14 DELTA=0.1 KAPPA=0.20 +
TPG=1 CGDO=3.1716E-10 RD=7.0 VTO=-2.20 VMAX=1.0E7 ETA=0.0223089 +
NFS=6.6E10 TOX=750E-10 LD=1.698E-9 UO=862.425 XJ=6.4666E-7 THETA=1.0E-5 +
CGSO=2.50E-9 L=3.0E-6 W=59E-3 KP=12E-6)
Bill,

I got some of this stuff from Ian Hegglun; he told me sure post it.
So here goes, hope it is helpful.

Jan
Attached Files
File Type: zip VDMOS-DN2540-DN2530-models.zip (10.1 KB, 308 views)
__________________
Cable: a potential source of trouble interconnecting two other potential sources of trouble - Erik Margan
Linear Audio pubs and articles . The SilentSwitcher now at diyaudio store SilentSwitcher. Keeping in touch with SY.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2016, 06:59 PM   #135
keantoken is offline keantoken  United States
diyAudio Member
 
keantoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Texas
For some reason I stopped receiving messages about this thread. It appears Ian made a DN2530 model in addition to the DN2540 model that had already been posted. You can find both in that zip file along with the test fixtures used to create them.
__________________
The Kmultiplier rail filter! -=- The Simple Kuartlotron Superbuffer!
Need something built, repaired or modded? PM me and ask what I can do!
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2016, 06:36 AM   #136
bimo is offline bimo  Indonesia
diyAudio Member
 
bimo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Depok, West of Java
Here some store still sell 2SK1058 and 2SJ162. I don't know it is fake or not, but some people still love to use them. Sometime I use 10N20 and 10P20 in simulation to replace 2SK1058 and 2SJ162 model from Bob Cordell, but I found they are slightly different on VGS - Id relation.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2016, 03:08 PM   #137
keantoken is offline keantoken  United States
diyAudio Member
 
keantoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Texas
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimo View Post
Here some store still sell 2SK1058 and 2SJ162. I don't know it is fake or not, but some people still love to use them. Sometime I use 10N20 and 10P20 in simulation to replace 2SK1058 and 2SJ162 model from Bob Cordell, but I found they are slightly different on VGS - Id relation.
I haven't heard anyone complain about the sound of the Exicon/Alfet transistors, I've only just seen skepticism. From a technical perspective they are better devices and if they had been available at the time the NECs were king, I think they would have replaced them.
__________________
The Kmultiplier rail filter! -=- The Simple Kuartlotron Superbuffer!
Need something built, repaired or modded? PM me and ask what I can do!
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 04:19 AM   #138
bimo is offline bimo  Indonesia
diyAudio Member
 
bimo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Depok, West of Java
Quote:
Originally Posted by keantoken View Post
I haven't heard anyone complain about the sound of the Exicon/Alfet transistors, I've only just seen skepticism. From a technical perspective they are better devices and if they had been available at the time the NECs were king, I think they would have replaced them.
I mean, can I use exicon mosfet in simulation but use 2KS1058/SJ162 in real amplifier? I'm worry about biasing the mosfet. But I can accept if the result have higher distortion.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 05:02 AM   #139
keantoken is offline keantoken  United States
diyAudio Member
 
keantoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Texas
The 10N20/10P20 are meant to be drop-in replacements for the NEC/Renesas Lfets. So it should be fine.

The 20N20/20P20 are dual-die versions, so you can even use them and bias will roughly double.
__________________
The Kmultiplier rail filter! -=- The Simple Kuartlotron Superbuffer!
Need something built, repaired or modded? PM me and ask what I can do!
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2016, 11:44 AM   #140
Bob Cordell is offline Bob Cordell  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimo View Post
I mean, can I use exicon mosfet in simulation but use 2KS1058/SJ162 in real amplifier? I'm worry about biasing the mosfet. But I can accept if the result have higher distortion.
Don't worry too much about biasing LMOSFETs. To first order, the more bias current the better, as long as things don't get too hot. Given the wide variation among threshold voltages among even the same manufacturer's devices, simulation in regard to bias voltage for a given current may not be of great help anyway - just to first order. There is not really an optimum bias current for MOSFETs for lowest crossover distortion (in contrast to BJTs). I suggest you bias each device at no less than 150mA. I don't remember what bias current Hafler used in the DH200/220. Those amplifiers have two output pair per channel.

Cheers,
Bob
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Better power MOSFET models in LTSpiceHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LTSpice tube models Osvaldo de Banfield Software Tools 27 26th October 2013 06:04 AM
LTSpice models needed popilin Tubes / Valves 6 25th April 2013 12:08 AM
Adding models in LTSpice danny92 Software Tools 1 13th April 2013 10:05 PM
Ltspice and Valve models Melon Head Software Tools 3 18th October 2009 08:35 AM
2SJ and 2SK Power Mosfet Spice Models Requested alaskanaudio Everything Else 4 14th December 2001 01:14 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:22 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.00%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki