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Old 25th June 2019, 01:50 PM   #631
perceval is offline perceval  Taiwan
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Myself, I think the tweeter is still too hot, and maybe the woofer is not loud enough. Is this the only woofer available? Could you find another woofer that would have more output?

The impedance is pretty wild.

Also, would need to add a notch high up at 16kHz to kill that breakup.
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Old 25th June 2019, 08:09 PM   #632
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Agreed that the tweeter seems hot (maybe the driver measurements were off a bit?). Or you have the wrong value parts in there for R2 or C4 maybe. The modeled impedance looks just fine to me, unless you plan to use a poor damping factor tube amp or the like.

I'd personally leave that low end rise just as it is (if it's accurate, that's down where it gets hard to measure).
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Old 26th June 2019, 12:23 PM   #633
Mazza is offline Mazza  Australia
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Gents thanks for your comments.

These speakers actually seem quite tame in the treble. In one of my attached pics you will see my creation, an EV ZX1i-100 and a Redback C 0996. All of these are 8" PA speakers. The Redback is a knockoff of the previous series EV SX80 which I also have (and is a great sounding loudspeaker also). I have attached a comparison sweep for these; the Redback is bright! The EV less so, then in comparison my Miniwave seems very tame to both (to my old ears). So it surprised me that you'd both suggest the top end is hot.

The woofer in my creation is an EV8L (in the Eminence Beta family if I'm not mistaken) and has a nominal 92 db. Its exactly the same driver that is in the ZX1i-100 (and SX80) as it so happens. The horn loaded compression driver is 106db by the specs.

Using the bass removed sweep with Omnimic I ramped up the volume on the compression driver till Omnimic was measuring around 90db.

I then measured the woofer (full range sweep) and both parallel (bass removed again) at exactly the same volume position on my amp, ie I did not change the level on the amp once set for the tweeter.

I have built a turntable that I sit a stand on, the speaker is placed on the stand.

Compared to the EV ZX1i-100 (which uses the same woofer) these sound decidedly tame on the top end - see comparison sweep taken back to back with my measurements of this system. The EV certainly measures more flat than mine, which have a bit of a dip down between 200 (if its accurate?) to 2000hz.

In my V3 of this crossover I'm actually thinking of dropping the value of L2 to 1.5 in the woofer circuit to bring up this region and upping the top end a little to get closer to the ZX1i-100's sound! On the other hand I'm thinking I perhaps should adjust my ears to this V2 crossovers sound for a bit to see if I like it.

Is this just a case of I'm used to the EV sound and should take a while to adjust perhaps? I will also recheck the values of all the parts in my crossovers (that's a fire breathing dragon my 6 yr old added to my crossover ply prior to assembly!).

May I assume you see no other glaring problems here?

Thanks again!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Measurement.jpg (62.4 KB, 155 views)
File Type: jpg The three.jpg (64.4 KB, 162 views)
File Type: png AusWave ZX1i Redback.png (13.3 KB, 158 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190619_105546699.jpg (212.6 KB, 151 views)

Last edited by Mazza; 26th June 2019 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 26th June 2019, 08:54 PM   #634
Bill poster is offline Bill poster  Thailand
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attempting a sim for 3 way build- 3 woofers in parallel, with extra inductor on lower woofer. Having a few probs .. as I'm sure you can see. Can I get away with that woofer low pass?IMG_20190625_105637_609.jpgIMG_20190625_105637_615.jpgIMG_20190625_105637_614.jpg
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Old 26th June 2019, 10:35 PM   #635
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill poster View Post
attempting a sim for 3 way build- 3 woofers in parallel, with extra inductor on lower woofer. Having a few probs .. as I'm sure you can see. Can I get away with that woofer low pass?Attachment 765114Attachment 765115Attachment 765116
Well, if that's real, I guess so. But how is the impedance staying above 4 ohms with 3 woofers in parallel?? Are those 16 ohm drivers or something? Maybe show the impedance curve for the woofers alone
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Old 27th June 2019, 01:16 PM   #636
Bill poster is offline Bill poster  Thailand
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I was surprised too. The mid is 6 ohm(Accuton cell C90), and rise (on woofers) to fs starts around 250 or so. I'm guessing thats how it stayed above 4ohm.

Last edited by Bill poster; 27th June 2019 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 27th June 2019, 06:07 PM   #637
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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But down at very low frequency the inductors and caps do little unless they have very high DCR, and the voice couls are below resonance so there is only their DCR. The impedance very LF should about 1.5 ohms.... Something's wrong.
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Old 27th June 2019, 07:10 PM   #638
Bill poster is offline Bill poster  Thailand
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I'd assumed that the rise to Fs wd show on graph. Woofers fs is approx 30hz. DCR on inductors is around 0.4 or so..
Will do another sim in due course.
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Old 27th June 2019, 11:34 PM   #639
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Maybe attach the .dxo file itself, so people here can see what is going on
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Old 27th June 2019, 11:39 PM   #640
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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The impedance phase curve looks very wrong -- where the big peak is at 30Hz, a true phase curve would look S-shaped (a parallel resonance)
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