Yes, you're quite right. It's possible to adjust the loss term through the "Tune" menu. Thanks for pointing it out.
Help me understand, there is response and phase for each driver, that's four per cross and six all told. If you focus on one cross at a time, when you manipulate one driver at a time you'll notice both response and phase for that driver will change.
Higher orders of filter will make for a steeper phase slope.
No, phase doesn't change the direction of driver sound radiation. That's a property of the driver itself. The relative phase between low-pass and high-pass outputs affects the radiation pattern of the pair of drivers, although each driver's filtered magnitude response does also play its part. For example, third-order Butterworth acoustic responses sum to 0 dB on axis with a phase difference magnitude of 90 degrees, and the levels at crossover need to be –3dB for a flat summed response. For a 4th-order Linkwitz–Riley low-pass and high-pass filter pair, the drivers are in phase (0 degrees relative phase difference), with magnitude responses at crossover that are –6 dB for a flat summed response.
The Linkwitz–Riley crossover will produce a main lobe that points straight out from the front baffle. The 3rd-order Butterworth crossover will have a main lobe that points downwards/upwards relative to the front baffle. That's an effect caused by inter-driver spacing when non-coaxial drivers are used.
They're measured, as in I'm using the data files provided by Dayton Audio. I removed the resistor from both the woofer and mid, barely made a difference, which is awesome, one less component needed.
I understand my question about phase may not be important, but I've worked out how to manipulate them, hence the question. I watched one example, where the trace came in from a rather high angle, say 160-180deg, but then flatlined around 0deg. I'm just trying to understand what the aim is here so I can work towards correct phase alignment🙏
I understand my question about phase may not be important, but I've worked out how to manipulate them, hence the question. I watched one example, where the trace came in from a rather high angle, say 160-180deg, but then flatlined around 0deg. I'm just trying to understand what the aim is here so I can work towards correct phase alignment🙏
Correct phase is too complicated a subject for now. The limits I've already outlined will get you through.
Yes, they slope with your filter and then level out again.
Yes, they slope with your filter and then level out again.
They do not include your box so you do not have data for the baffle step. You want your bass to be a few dB higher.
Kind of. The baffle affects all drivers, but only from a certain frequency. If you are trying to estimate the effect it's better to go for an overall step in the response rather than adjust only one of the drivers.
This may help - https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...overs-without-measurement.189847/post-2587232
This may help - https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...overs-without-measurement.189847/post-2587232
That was a great read, will need to go over it again to absorb all the information you provided, and will probably retrace my steps yet again to further fine tune my xo.
I adjusted the mod sensitivity by another -3dB, now being a total of -6dB, which meant I had to adjust the mid and high drivers in order to maintain my -3db tilt, which was implemented to both elevate/maintain the lower frequencies, but also soften the high mids and high frequencies.
In making those minor adjustments, I raised the impedance, the lowest point now being around 7Ohms, which is near perfect for my old amp.
I want to tackle the phase responses, but right now I'm staring at the picture I just painted, I'll destroy it another time : )
I adjusted the mod sensitivity by another -3dB, now being a total of -6dB, which meant I had to adjust the mid and high drivers in order to maintain my -3db tilt, which was implemented to both elevate/maintain the lower frequencies, but also soften the high mids and high frequencies.
In making those minor adjustments, I raised the impedance, the lowest point now being around 7Ohms, which is near perfect for my old amp.
I want to tackle the phase responses, but right now I'm staring at the picture I just painted, I'll destroy it another time : )
Altering the mod sensitivity isn't the correct way here to deal with the lack of low bass below BS. You need to attenuate the drivers with padding - ie using the components of the crossover to achieve this as per AllanB's linked posts. The sensitivity controls on the drivers in XSim are not for this purpose.
You need to work with the raw sensitivity of the drivers in the crossover because this is how loud they will play in a box with a passive crossover. If you read AllenB's excellent thread he linked more broadly then you will see there how to construct the circuits to deal with differences in sensitivity between drivers.
TBH I think a good read of AllenB's thread he linked just now will help answer most if not all of these questions you have at this point.
Good luck!
You need to work with the raw sensitivity of the drivers in the crossover because this is how loud they will play in a box with a passive crossover. If you read AllenB's excellent thread he linked more broadly then you will see there how to construct the circuits to deal with differences in sensitivity between drivers.
TBH I think a good read of AllenB's thread he linked just now will help answer most if not all of these questions you have at this point.
Good luck!
Stormbringer, I would like to add a remark, that it is not appropriate to assume that you can develop a loudspeaker using manufacturer's frequency plots, simulate a crossover and build it, add a box and be done with it. It just does not work this way.
You must build your box and measure your real world specimen of drivers mounted in that box. Only then can sim give you rather precise results, but still, these results will need tweaking by listening, resimming etc. until you hit the spot. This is an iterative process.
You must build your box and measure your real world specimen of drivers mounted in that box. Only then can sim give you rather precise results, but still, these results will need tweaking by listening, resimming etc. until you hit the spot. This is an iterative process.
Exactly. You have no idea the conditions that the Dayton drivers were measured. IEC baffle? A standard Dayton baffle? All the results will be different. If you are going to this level of effort an $150 USB mic and REW is definitely the way to go. It is accurate enough. Actually as accurate in many ways as my much more expensive measurement mics.
Cobble together a measurement box to use REW for your drivers electrical measurements and then measure their acoustical outputs and your sims will be quite accurate.
Mark
P.S. Awesome support on this thread.