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Old 21st March 2018, 07:55 PM   #451
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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You're ahead of me!. That is a VERY mild phase curve. Some would call that "virtually linear phase". Is that from measured data?

Based on phase alone, that second curve would be great. Not many drivers are very happy with such a simple crossover. though (excess LF energy into tweeters. too much breakup radiating from LF drivers).
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Old 21st March 2018, 07:59 PM   #452
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Whether the woofer/tweeter magnitude crossings is good kind of depends on how far the drivers are spaced from each other. In a coaxial arrangment, it would be great, with drivers 12 inches apart, the off-axis response would show lots of weirdness
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Old 21st March 2018, 08:24 PM   #453
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The data for the tweeters and midrange are measured and the woofer data was traced from the manufacturer spec sheet. The two tweeters are a sort of a tonsuale column between two angled midranges. The OEM crossover is on a real PCB and well made. Sansui really choked up the bandpass and tweeters for some reason. I replaced the original woofers with cheap MCM 8 ohms ones. The tweeters are rated at 14 ohms each and the "squakers" at 12. Each pair is wired in parallel. The OEM woofer was 6 ohms.
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Old 22nd March 2018, 01:12 AM   #454
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How did you trace the mfr spec sheet?
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Old 22nd March 2018, 01:28 AM   #455
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I used SPLCopy. I extracted the graphs as images and enlarged them a little. Somebody over on AudioKarma sent me the measured FRD and ZMA for the tweeters and midranges. He used REW.

I also measured how deep the horns are and the diaphragms grills are 4" behind the front of the baffle. They also have a weird horizontal diffuser in front of them.

Golden Age Of Audio: Sansui SP-2500 Vintage Speakers

I have two pairs but the one I'm working on here is built in 1971. The midranges and tweeters have to be heard to be appreciated. It is like some sort of Kabuki Bose Heresy hybrid.

The crossovers are weird too. Unusual component values with two transformer inductors. They change the left slope of the midrange and tweeters. What they really did was change the upper and lower crossover points. They each have three settings Clear, Natural, Soft. with Soft having the deepest slope. The only original inductor on my test graphs is the .351mH on the midrange.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 2329546.pdf (96.1 KB, 24 views)

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Old 22nd March 2018, 01:11 PM   #456
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I could not get SPL Copy to import the image files (in Windows 10 at least). FP Graph Tracer looked like it traced accurately, but the resultant FRD and ZMA data was off and the FRD/ZMA graph view function of SPL Copy showed this to be true.
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Old 22nd March 2018, 08:24 PM   #457
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I created separate jpg images from the pdf file.. Then used SPLCopy and checked the FRD and ZMA files for accuracy with the graphs. I needed to use a line larger and different color than the one on the graphs. I will admit it took me several tries. Another way to plot is to plot material points on a spreadsheet. insert like 8 rows in between each plot and use (FR1 - FR2)/8+1 = X and then FR1+X and down the rows to you get the same thing at FR2. Same thing with decibles or whatever is being plotted. I generally start with the frequency plots xsim creates and fill in the blanks between each 1/3 octave or whatever line is on the graph. That generally comes up with about 8 rows in between.

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Old 22nd March 2018, 08:49 PM   #458
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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You could also use the FRD/ZMA edit tool in the beta version of Xsim ( Index of /Xsim/BetaTest). It lets you enter values at whatever frequencies you want and draws smooth curves between points -- just keep adding points until you are comfortable with how well the shape matches. It can also figure out the phase response, so you can enter only the dB values (or Ohm values, for ZMA files).
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Old 22nd March 2018, 10:40 PM   #459
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That's the ticket!
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Old 23rd March 2018, 01:51 AM   #460
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Thanx Bill.

I think part of the FP Tracer problem is the crappy little and inaccurate graphs. The logarithmic scale is probably off too. The errors all add up.

I just need to get up to speed on how to obtain my own data points. I've got a nice 8' ladder, UMIK, laptop and a back yard
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