Hi guys,
I want to better understand the acoustics of our livingroom and based on that, see what kind of changes I can make to improve the acoustics. I had a previous post about designing a loudspeaker, but I;m taking a step back to first understand the room before I continue with the new design.
First of all some info about the room. It is an open plan with livingroom, open kitchen and diner room in an L-shape. The wall to the backyard is mosly of glass. We have very thin curtains that give some privacy, but allow light to enter. They don;t do anything significant for the acoustics.
This the floorplan.
This is where the sofa is located. The speakers are on both corners, but next to the TV. The speakers are the KEF LS50 wireless. I have a subwoofer with 13" driver in closed box.
In the next post, I will share the measurements. So in first post is just some info about the room.
I want to better understand the acoustics of our livingroom and based on that, see what kind of changes I can make to improve the acoustics. I had a previous post about designing a loudspeaker, but I;m taking a step back to first understand the room before I continue with the new design.
First of all some info about the room. It is an open plan with livingroom, open kitchen and diner room in an L-shape. The wall to the backyard is mosly of glass. We have very thin curtains that give some privacy, but allow light to enter. They don;t do anything significant for the acoustics.
This the floorplan.
This is where the sofa is located. The speakers are on both corners, but next to the TV. The speakers are the KEF LS50 wireless. I have a subwoofer with 13" driver in closed box.
In the next post, I will share the measurements. So in first post is just some info about the room.
Attachments
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And now the measurements.
I have taken a lot of measurements with UMIK-1 and REW. All the measuremnts are smoothed to 1/12. I tried to correct for gated measurements, But the impluse ilooks different to the one showd on the doucmentation of UMIK. I cannot recognise the first reflection point to correct for. I have also included the Impulse as attachment.
L = RED, R = Green and LR = Blue.
The "changed DSP" mesurement, I tried to boost the treble and lower the bass.
The RT30 and waterfall should have values lesser than 500ms, but I see a lot of reflections here. Should this be the main problem to fix first? Which wall to start with? The glass of the back wall?
The floor is of concrete (please see pictures in first post)
I have taken a lot of measurements with UMIK-1 and REW. All the measuremnts are smoothed to 1/12. I tried to correct for gated measurements, But the impluse ilooks different to the one showd on the doucmentation of UMIK. I cannot recognise the first reflection point to correct for. I have also included the Impulse as attachment.
L = RED, R = Green and LR = Blue.
The "changed DSP" mesurement, I tried to boost the treble and lower the bass.
The RT30 and waterfall should have values lesser than 500ms, but I see a lot of reflections here. Should this be the main problem to fix first? Which wall to start with? The glass of the back wall?
The floor is of concrete (please see pictures in first post)
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Wow
You have a lot going on there. Hopefully the REW gods can help. Lol
Sorry but I’m pretty behind on REW and need to learn it. I will say that you need better treatment on the glass wall. Good luck with this. It looks like a great room for atmos.
What state are you in? Maybe someone close can help
You have a lot going on there. Hopefully the REW gods can help. Lol
Sorry but I’m pretty behind on REW and need to learn it. I will say that you need better treatment on the glass wall. Good luck with this. It looks like a great room for atmos.
What state are you in? Maybe someone close can help
For starters, go to the Impulse tab, and zoom in on the ~ first 20 ms. That will show you where the first reflections come in. To do that click on the Limits button on the right top of the screen and set 'Left s' to something like -0,010 and 'Right s' to 0,020. Set the top to something like 120% and bottom to -60% and press "Apply Settings".
That should give you a clearer look at the impulse and the first reflections.
I'm guessing the State he's in is closer to me than you, carlthess40
.
If I'm not mistaken I see some familiar language on the plots.
That should give you a clearer look at the impulse and the first reflections.
I'm guessing the State he's in is closer to me than you, carlthess40
.If I'm not mistaken I see some familiar language on the plots.
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Thanks!
I'm in the Netherlands (EU). Indeed my measurements look horrible.. Maybe the glass and the hard floor are the problem. We have a very thick carpet under the sofa.
We have a lowered cealing (with +/- 10cm) for the build-in lights. There is no isolation or absorption material used between the lowered cealing and the concrete cealing. I have to say that the lowered cealing seems to have a positve effect. When we got the house, there was much more echo before we installed this ceiling.
I'm in the Netherlands (EU). Indeed my measurements look horrible.. Maybe the glass and the hard floor are the problem. We have a very thick carpet under the sofa.
We have a lowered cealing (with +/- 10cm) for the build-in lights. There is no isolation or absorption material used between the lowered cealing and the concrete cealing. I have to say that the lowered cealing seems to have a positve effect. When we got the house, there was much more echo before we installed this ceiling.
For starters, go to the Impulse tab, and zoom in on the ~ first 20 ms. That will show you where the first reflections come in. To do that click on the Limits button on the right top of the screen and set 'Left s' to something like -0,010 and 'Right s' to 0,020. Set the top to something like 120% and bottom to -60% and press "Apply Settings".
That should give you a clearer look at the impulse and the first reflections.
I'm guessing the State he's in is closer to me that you, carlthess40
If I'm not mistaken I see some familiar language on the plots.
Hhahah yes! The Hague to be more precise ;-)
When I look at the example on the website of MINIDSP. Even If I zoom in, I cannot get something similar to the example. This is what I'm trying to do: Loudspeaker measurements
I have added the measurement as an attachment. Can you please see if you can get the gating window correctly?
Let me guess, this was with both speakers playing, right? At least the double peak seems to indicate that. Try to measure the speakers one by one.
So first the left speaker, then the right speaker.
Right now we seem to be looking at both speakers at once, which doesn't make it clear what is what.
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At first, yes, one speaker at a time. Once we settle that and maybe optimize the results we may look at both speakers firing at once.
Which would look best if you measure it in the exact sweet spot. Both spikes you see close together in my plot, should form one spike if the measurement microphone is equal distance to both speakers. A little movement goes a long way. But first let's see the left speaker and right speaker separately.
I take it you measured at a distance? In the neighborhood of the couch? The tutorial you show is measuring up close, to get rid of most of the room effects (for instance, for crossover work). You are trying to learn what your room does. So that does mean measuring at the listening position and analyzing what we see there.
The RT30 and waterfall sure could use some help. It is a very lively space. The distortion at low frequencies is high too, I'm guessing it's only the KEF left and right channel we see in this plot?
Which would look best if you measure it in the exact sweet spot. Both spikes you see close together in my plot, should form one spike if the measurement microphone is equal distance to both speakers. A little movement goes a long way. But first let's see the left speaker and right speaker separately.
I take it you measured at a distance? In the neighborhood of the couch? The tutorial you show is measuring up close, to get rid of most of the room effects (for instance, for crossover work). You are trying to learn what your room does. So that does mean measuring at the listening position and analyzing what we see there.
The RT30 and waterfall sure could use some help. It is a very lively space. The distortion at low frequencies is high too, I'm guessing it's only the KEF left and right channel we see in this plot?
Looking at the room pictures(lovely place). I see a few materials that can be added to improve things. Custom window curtains can be made with heavy cotton material with acoustically transparent fabric in front of the cotton. The Tv has to go or be installed in a cabinet with absorption door fronts, closed for critical listening. The credenza is low, I don't think its a problem. The carpet should be heavier and placed at the first reflection point, better if its shag.. Absorption installed on the ceiling at the first reflection position, your ceiling looks like a nice place for it. All of this for more focused upper mids and highs. Can you measure FR outdoors on a min 6 foot ladder to compare..
note. acoustically transparent fabric will have a 6-7khz reflection but with the cotton, still much better than what the window is contributing.
note. acoustically transparent fabric will have a 6-7khz reflection but with the cotton, still much better than what the window is contributing.
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I spent a lot of time masuring and reading, if you can measure separately this should help, you would ideally get nearer to 300/400 ms max above 500-1KHZ, not much you can do below 100 without EQ. I think T30/T20 are more informative
Do try the clap test by short sharp clap around the room and you will find problem wall areas, your room looks way to live with too much hard unbroken reflective areas
My curves ended up like this with more soft furnishing some wall panels and rugs
Do try the clap test by short sharp clap around the room and you will find problem wall areas, your room looks way to live with too much hard unbroken reflective areas
My curves ended up like this with more soft furnishing some wall panels and rugs
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Thanks for the response. Indeed the room has too much hard reflective areas. I measured again and even with one speaker at a time the result is very bad. Everything is above 650ms. Playing with the pillows of my sofa's I can get it closer to 500/550ms.
I will order 3 GIK Acoustics panels. I'm thinking of three of these: Impression Pro Series 50mm Acoustic Panel Diffusor Absorber - GIK Acoustics Europe
They have them in 50mm and 100mm thickness. I'm aware that 100mm is better as bass trap, but I;m affraid they will look too thick in our room. Do you think three of these (60cm * 120cm per panel) can have a noticeable effect on the accoustics of my room?
I will order 3 GIK Acoustics panels. I'm thinking of three of these: Impression Pro Series 50mm Acoustic Panel Diffusor Absorber - GIK Acoustics Europe
They have them in 50mm and 100mm thickness. I'm aware that 100mm is better as bass trap, but I;m affraid they will look too thick in our room. Do you think three of these (60cm * 120cm per panel) can have a noticeable effect on the accoustics of my room?
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50mm will be fine, the bass trapping from these will be pretty minimal, I have used these in my room with good effect and they look great. I set them at ear level. Ideally I would have had a few more above the dado rail, but was pretty happy with the sound. it's nicely clean without being dead, or soaking up transients and dynamics. No congestion and the imaging improved
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