All acoustic systems, commercial or DIY, will never sound like a good pair of headphones. It is an incontestable and undeniable fact.
My room system is not the best, but it is not to devalue either, I have spent a lot of time and money on it, but I do not get with it the sound of my old AKG K-141, which I still use, and it is supposed to be outperformed by current models ...
The Sennheissers were also superb, I remember the first ones (which were really ugly, but they used mylar diaphragms and that did the miracle.
Sennheiser HD 414 and 424 – Old School | TONEAudio MAGAZINE
The subsequent intensive use of this material wiped out the heavy eyes with transistor radio mini-speakers inside!
This was the Pionner SE 305, they were a Chinese torture, bad sound, heavy and suffocating.
Even a pair of mid-priced, recent manufacture Phillips headphones have bass with surprising resolution, my "room" system doesn't have "the one-note bass", but it's different, there's no transparency or harmonics that gives a good headphone in the low end of the spectrum.
My favorites were always the open system, (the air is not locked in the ear tunnel, breathe)
For example, I had Koss, I remember the HV-1A and the HVX, I had both. What transparency and definition they had!
So, if you want the best sound in the world for little money, you know ......
My room system is not the best, but it is not to devalue either, I have spent a lot of time and money on it, but I do not get with it the sound of my old AKG K-141, which I still use, and it is supposed to be outperformed by current models ...
The Sennheissers were also superb, I remember the first ones (which were really ugly, but they used mylar diaphragms and that did the miracle.
Sennheiser HD 414 and 424 – Old School | TONEAudio MAGAZINE
The subsequent intensive use of this material wiped out the heavy eyes with transistor radio mini-speakers inside!
This was the Pionner SE 305, they were a Chinese torture, bad sound, heavy and suffocating.
Even a pair of mid-priced, recent manufacture Phillips headphones have bass with surprising resolution, my "room" system doesn't have "the one-note bass", but it's different, there's no transparency or harmonics that gives a good headphone in the low end of the spectrum.
My favorites were always the open system, (the air is not locked in the ear tunnel, breathe)
For example, I had Koss, I remember the HV-1A and the HVX, I had both. What transparency and definition they had!
So, if you want the best sound in the world for little money, you know ......
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While you are certainly entitled to have your own opinion, your specific view on things, I must say I rather listen to my "system" than to my headphones.
Not because I have lousy quality headphones, but because listening to music from a good room/speaker system does so much more for me than headphones can ever do. Music isn't just an experience that can be heard, it goes way deeper than that. Some parts are felt, just as well as heard. That total package is what I like. The energy, the feel of it all.
I also like the imaging that is possible within stereo listening, another thing that headphones by themselves do not present to me. They probably could, with something like a Smyth Realizer, but then I would just be mimicking a good pair of speakers.
So I'll rather take the complete package of what a good room + speaker combination can give, any day, any time. It's just a more complete experience for me.
I'll keep my headphones, thank you. They do serve as sort of a reference check for me. But I'd say my system has surpassed the reference as far as the total experience for me.
Not because I have lousy quality headphones, but because listening to music from a good room/speaker system does so much more for me than headphones can ever do. Music isn't just an experience that can be heard, it goes way deeper than that. Some parts are felt, just as well as heard. That total package is what I like. The energy, the feel of it all.
I also like the imaging that is possible within stereo listening, another thing that headphones by themselves do not present to me. They probably could, with something like a Smyth Realizer, but then I would just be mimicking a good pair of speakers.
So I'll rather take the complete package of what a good room + speaker combination can give, any day, any time. It's just a more complete experience for me.
I'll keep my headphones, thank you. They do serve as sort of a reference check for me. But I'd say my system has surpassed the reference as far as the total experience for me.
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You say :
I'll keep my headphones, thank you.
But I am not trying to recommend headphones or sell anything !
In fact, all the models I mentioned are archaic! The point is, good headphones sound far superior to good systems.
Maybe your headset is not good enough or your system is too poor, then the references do not help you to understand my point.
An example, do you hear a double bass solo better in your room than with your headset or vice versa?
Have you heard any electrostatic headphones? Wow, that's real music, plus the stereo image and soundstage outperform any thousand dollar system .....
Top 10 Electrostatic Headphones in 2021 - Headphonereview
Also you can't take your system to the bedroom to enjoy a movie with good sound ...
I'll keep my headphones, thank you.
But I am not trying to recommend headphones or sell anything !
In fact, all the models I mentioned are archaic! The point is, good headphones sound far superior to good systems.
Maybe your headset is not good enough or your system is too poor, then the references do not help you to understand my point.
An example, do you hear a double bass solo better in your room than with your headset or vice versa?
Have you heard any electrostatic headphones? Wow, that's real music, plus the stereo image and soundstage outperform any thousand dollar system .....
Top 10 Electrostatic Headphones in 2021 - Headphonereview
Also you can't take your system to the bedroom to enjoy a movie with good sound ...
I guess I would have to say "what about" any demarcation between recordings made specifically for headphone playback and recordings made for 8' - 10' of stereo speaker separation?
I do understand wesayso's point. Headphones aren't going to sound like a live drumkit or standup bass in the room. There's a piece missing when the rest of the body isnt subjected to the SPLs such acoustic instruments produce. Ever go to a drag strip and feel your body shake as a, say, 10K HP top fuel rail car goes past? Headphones wont do that.
I guess that's why there's a market for stuff that shakes the chair or sofa too. When you feel it in the body as well as hear it, it's closer to real.
That said, somewhere I have a set of Bose microphones that you wear like headphones, which I picked up at a yard sale. I assume they were intended for some auto-calibration routine of some Bose system. If I can find them and get them to pick up stereo sound, I'm going to try some binaural recordings again. Those can be fun to listen to - in being well out of the context of the original recording - using headphones.
I do understand wesayso's point. Headphones aren't going to sound like a live drumkit or standup bass in the room. There's a piece missing when the rest of the body isnt subjected to the SPLs such acoustic instruments produce. Ever go to a drag strip and feel your body shake as a, say, 10K HP top fuel rail car goes past? Headphones wont do that.
I guess that's why there's a market for stuff that shakes the chair or sofa too. When you feel it in the body as well as hear it, it's closer to real.
That said, somewhere I have a set of Bose microphones that you wear like headphones, which I picked up at a yard sale. I assume they were intended for some auto-calibration routine of some Bose system. If I can find them and get them to pick up stereo sound, I'm going to try some binaural recordings again. Those can be fun to listen to - in being well out of the context of the original recording - using headphones.
This may not be the appropriate place for this thread, but the admin. have not moved it, I will continue here.
Ever go to a drag strip and feel your body shake as a, say, 10K HP top fuel rail car goes past? Headphones wont do that.
Yes, I know what that feeling is, as a child, I and my little friends put coins on the rails and waited for the freight train to pass. (a classic scene from the movies, gg)
And my current room system, with two 150-liter subwoofers and two 18 "speakers, achieves that bodily feel you speak of.
But that's not my point. Quality headphones achieve a different sound, but if you have not had the experience, it is difficult to transmit the sound with words, as always ...
I find it more real, more detailed, with more definition in the low notes, and I have listened to many systems and many headphones, and if we leave aside the body sensation, the headphones win widely in everything else, perhaps the only point against It would be that they have too much stereo separation, but some circuits had been developed a long time ago to handle depth and channel separation at will, - always in the analog domain -, nothing as sophisticated as what Wesayso posted in the digital domain. (What a complication, thanks, wesayso, it seems that we are from another generation, gg)
Perhaps a careful reading of the link that I repeat again is more clarifying.
Top 10 Electrostatic Headphones in 2021 - Headphonereview
Audeze LCD-4 Over Ear | Open Back Headphone | Ebony Wood Ring | Leather Ear Pads
$3,995.00
jjasniew : Good luck with the experiment, I'm glad that the thread has motivated you to new audio tests, I see that you are excited about the recordings. And yes, a microphone and a speaker are similar, they are both electromechanical transducers, except that they do it in the opposite direction.
Tell us later how you did with that.
Ever go to a drag strip and feel your body shake as a, say, 10K HP top fuel rail car goes past? Headphones wont do that.
Yes, I know what that feeling is, as a child, I and my little friends put coins on the rails and waited for the freight train to pass. (a classic scene from the movies, gg)
And my current room system, with two 150-liter subwoofers and two 18 "speakers, achieves that bodily feel you speak of.
But that's not my point. Quality headphones achieve a different sound, but if you have not had the experience, it is difficult to transmit the sound with words, as always ...
I find it more real, more detailed, with more definition in the low notes, and I have listened to many systems and many headphones, and if we leave aside the body sensation, the headphones win widely in everything else, perhaps the only point against It would be that they have too much stereo separation, but some circuits had been developed a long time ago to handle depth and channel separation at will, - always in the analog domain -, nothing as sophisticated as what Wesayso posted in the digital domain. (What a complication, thanks, wesayso, it seems that we are from another generation, gg)
Perhaps a careful reading of the link that I repeat again is more clarifying.
Top 10 Electrostatic Headphones in 2021 - Headphonereview
Audeze LCD-4 Over Ear | Open Back Headphone | Ebony Wood Ring | Leather Ear Pads
$3,995.00
jjasniew : Good luck with the experiment, I'm glad that the thread has motivated you to new audio tests, I see that you are excited about the recordings. And yes, a microphone and a speaker are similar, they are both electromechanical transducers, except that they do it in the opposite direction.
Tell us later how you did with that.
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My headphones were the German Maestro GMP 8.35 D, bought it because it was used at the time as reference headphones for sound quality competitions, both in Europe and the USA. Right now I use Status Audio OB-1, with FIR correction applied, it simply blew Senheiser HD 650 headphones out of the water. Very sweet and enjoyable sound. That sweet sound is quite close in tonality to what I get in my room too.
But my in room setup can match and surpass that, because of reasons already stated. I've been busy building, learning, adjusting and improving it over a span of over 7 years and it has been worth it. The key for me is to take control over room + speakers. You could view them as a giant set of headphones, with all the extra's that are enjoyable of an in-room system. Just browse the reviews I linked in my first post to get an idea. A lot is possible these days.
With a lot of help and inspirations from these forums, that also paved the way for me to get my hands on amplifiers I would never be able to afford otherwise. I didn't even think it mattered as long as one used good quality amplification, until we ran a test right there in my home auditioning several amplifiers (and a couple of headphones).
I can see the fascination with headphones, but I'm having way too much fun with my system! Still trying to improve on it, because it's so much fun!
No idea what generation you think I belong to, I was born in the sixties. As a former Mechanical Engineer, as well as an IT systems manager it was a given to use that in experience my Audio hobby.
But my in room setup can match and surpass that, because of reasons already stated. I've been busy building, learning, adjusting and improving it over a span of over 7 years and it has been worth it. The key for me is to take control over room + speakers. You could view them as a giant set of headphones, with all the extra's that are enjoyable of an in-room system. Just browse the reviews I linked in my first post to get an idea. A lot is possible these days.
With a lot of help and inspirations from these forums, that also paved the way for me to get my hands on amplifiers I would never be able to afford otherwise. I didn't even think it mattered as long as one used good quality amplification, until we ran a test right there in my home auditioning several amplifiers (and a couple of headphones).
I can see the fascination with headphones, but I'm having way too much fun with my system! Still trying to improve on it, because it's so much fun!
No idea what generation you think I belong to, I was born in the sixties. As a former Mechanical Engineer, as well as an IT systems manager it was a given to use that in experience my Audio hobby.
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Same here. Having listened to headphones with price tags up to 50k i admit many are really great but i have never felt even the slightest inclination to take a pair home, they just don't do it for me.
Music is emotion. It can bring back memories from the past. It can lift your spirit when times are tough...
So no matter how/ what way you can enjoy it, be it with headphones, a home build system, commerciallly bought speakers or at a live show (I do miss those)...
If you're able to enjoy it, it is a joy for life!
So no matter how/ what way you can enjoy it, be it with headphones, a home build system, commerciallly bought speakers or at a live show (I do miss those)...
If you're able to enjoy it, it is a joy for life!
" It is an incontestable and undeniable fact."
Please, pretend that I never wrote that, (post 1) I see that it was an error, I should have minimally put an emoticon like this there :
It seems that conventional home systems (or speakers?) Have evolved a lot, so they equal or exceed headphones, even the most sophisticated ones. Let's not even talk about the HI Hi Hi End teams! That must be pure magic.
Please, pretend that I never wrote that, (post 1) I see that it was an error, I should have minimally put an emoticon like this there :
It seems that conventional home systems (or speakers?) Have evolved a lot, so they equal or exceed headphones, even the most sophisticated ones. Let's not even talk about the HI Hi Hi End teams! That must be pure magic.
" ... they equal or exceed headphones, even the most sophisticated ones. Let's not even talk about the HI Hi Hi End teams! That must be pure magic.
oh dear!
The only thing hi end about the "hi end teams" are the abusive and exorbitant prices.
I have heard loads of them and remain constantly underwhelmed because they can't hold a candle to my fully designed from scratch system I made myself.
As for the old Senn414 they are dreadfully harsh and have lots of distortion.
Running them through a DSP with Linkwitz's amazing correction graphs and those old BBC phones are radically transformed into something unimagineably better, - even more than most modern ones.
My children who have good hearing think they are the absolute biz!
This website uses Harman's headphone target curve to review headphones.
Headphones Reviews: Best of 2021 - RTINGS.com
AKG headphones are designed toward the target (Samsung owned)
HEADPHONES | AKG
And the new Samsung earbuds.
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