I've composed but not posted half a dozen versions of this question over the last month but now with the DIYAudio Store stocking the crossover network kits by Nelson Pass I'm going to try to get these questions out there.
I see many comments about certain speakers not being appropriate for certain rooms. I've never heard any OB speaker but based on reading these are the two designs I would like to borrow from / copy for personal use. The Pure Audio Project dual 15" woofers with the TB-1808 (sorry can't confirm, their site has been down for a day or two). Maybe use Eminence Beta's instead of Alpha. I like the idea of being able to remove / replace the center baffle for trying a different full range driver.
The other would be a SLOB, maybe the Pass design with a single Eminence pro audio 15" woofer per speaker but the Lowther full range is out of my budget. It seems some people who tried the design with an additional woofer on the baffle were not ever completely satisfied, maybe I misinterpreted.
Additionally, I've been frozen with indecision because of the crossover network being over my head. I don't have a Windows OS, so unable to run the simulation Pass was so kind to provide. My current speakers have potentiometers on the back to adjust the crossovers but I get a headache every time I adjust them so I leave them at twelve-o-clock. The speakers I've been listening to for a few years are Infinity RS III-b, circa 1985. Their efficiency is poor. I think the bass is tight, but they can't do rock as desired some evenings after a couple of bourbons. Not so sure they are doing Bach's Cello Suites justice and with the 50th anniversary release of Electric Ladyland tomorrow I'll probably find them a lacking in delivering the SPL desired. Female vocals the overall system are sweet. Miles Davis and friends do just fine on the system for the years I like the most, being the early to mid 60's.
The main technical term I'm aware of is WAF. I'm able to get away with 4' tall speakers in a room with an 8' ceiling, but shaving a couple of inches would be preferred. I have permission to go to 21" baffle width each, but if 20" will cut it, that is better.. Two images, one is a sketch of the room where each square is 1'. The other a photo. There is a standing desk to the right of the red X which is the prime listening spot. The area over the listener's right shoulder is not really as closed off as much as it looks from the drawing, it's a kitchen. Behind is a dining table where music is listed to during dinner at low to moderate volumes. Floor is concrete slab and there are normally paintings, canvas under glass centered on the wall shown.
For amplification I have two DIY F4 monoblocks (currently in parallel) being driven by 6SL7 Aikido octal. The phono stage puts out too much gain (my guess, but I'm able to get horrible distortion by turning it all the way up), but don't get quite enough SPL with the output from a MacBook. (only tool I've used to measure are iPhone apps, which claim I max out at about 90dB before it sounds like garbage. Living in central Texas, I can't get away with more heat that that. I can build a different amp if needed to replace one F4. I'm kinda stuck here as well because I've never bi-amped anything. Three class A amps is too much heat, even for winter. Any sonic benefits are negated by the irritation of air conditioner blasting when too much heat is generated.
Any opinions on if OB will work in the space as pictured? Oh yeah, the couch will be replaced with something much smaller - but not this year.
Thanks for any input / criticism / suggestions! I don't want to waste time or money on something which will not sound better.
Cheers,
Jeff
I see many comments about certain speakers not being appropriate for certain rooms. I've never heard any OB speaker but based on reading these are the two designs I would like to borrow from / copy for personal use. The Pure Audio Project dual 15" woofers with the TB-1808 (sorry can't confirm, their site has been down for a day or two). Maybe use Eminence Beta's instead of Alpha. I like the idea of being able to remove / replace the center baffle for trying a different full range driver.
The other would be a SLOB, maybe the Pass design with a single Eminence pro audio 15" woofer per speaker but the Lowther full range is out of my budget. It seems some people who tried the design with an additional woofer on the baffle were not ever completely satisfied, maybe I misinterpreted.
Additionally, I've been frozen with indecision because of the crossover network being over my head. I don't have a Windows OS, so unable to run the simulation Pass was so kind to provide. My current speakers have potentiometers on the back to adjust the crossovers but I get a headache every time I adjust them so I leave them at twelve-o-clock. The speakers I've been listening to for a few years are Infinity RS III-b, circa 1985. Their efficiency is poor. I think the bass is tight, but they can't do rock as desired some evenings after a couple of bourbons. Not so sure they are doing Bach's Cello Suites justice and with the 50th anniversary release of Electric Ladyland tomorrow I'll probably find them a lacking in delivering the SPL desired. Female vocals the overall system are sweet. Miles Davis and friends do just fine on the system for the years I like the most, being the early to mid 60's.
The main technical term I'm aware of is WAF. I'm able to get away with 4' tall speakers in a room with an 8' ceiling, but shaving a couple of inches would be preferred. I have permission to go to 21" baffle width each, but if 20" will cut it, that is better.. Two images, one is a sketch of the room where each square is 1'. The other a photo. There is a standing desk to the right of the red X which is the prime listening spot. The area over the listener's right shoulder is not really as closed off as much as it looks from the drawing, it's a kitchen. Behind is a dining table where music is listed to during dinner at low to moderate volumes. Floor is concrete slab and there are normally paintings, canvas under glass centered on the wall shown.
For amplification I have two DIY F4 monoblocks (currently in parallel) being driven by 6SL7 Aikido octal. The phono stage puts out too much gain (my guess, but I'm able to get horrible distortion by turning it all the way up), but don't get quite enough SPL with the output from a MacBook. (only tool I've used to measure are iPhone apps, which claim I max out at about 90dB before it sounds like garbage. Living in central Texas, I can't get away with more heat that that. I can build a different amp if needed to replace one F4. I'm kinda stuck here as well because I've never bi-amped anything. Three class A amps is too much heat, even for winter. Any sonic benefits are negated by the irritation of air conditioner blasting when too much heat is generated.
Any opinions on if OB will work in the space as pictured? Oh yeah, the couch will be replaced with something much smaller - but not this year.
Thanks for any input / criticism / suggestions! I don't want to waste time or money on something which will not sound better.
Cheers,
Jeff
I like the turntable and your gears! F4 is a smooth sounding amp which helps.
The answer to your question is no... OB needs carpets and treated back walls to work best and lot of space between speakers.
In your situation I would get small near field monitors which interact as less as possible with the room, especially tilted monitors would be appropriate with room treatment.
My current speakers are monitors, I use two sets of them and they are in a 24 foot x 18 foot open living room with 9 ft ceilings, big carpets, draperies, and discrete damping, tables, and a piano
I would not place OB there even if the speakers are 12 ft from the back walls because they need more treatment in between speakers.
I built OB in a small bedroom but with sound damping material from the floor to the ceiling.
Back to Open Baffles..... with Pure Audio Project Trio 15 Voxativ | HiFiVision.com
this is not mine (my OB setup was better than this picture) but it gives you an idea of what could be successful .
The answer to your question is no... OB needs carpets and treated back walls to work best and lot of space between speakers.
In your situation I would get small near field monitors which interact as less as possible with the room, especially tilted monitors would be appropriate with room treatment.
My current speakers are monitors, I use two sets of them and they are in a 24 foot x 18 foot open living room with 9 ft ceilings, big carpets, draperies, and discrete damping, tables, and a piano
I would not place OB there even if the speakers are 12 ft from the back walls because they need more treatment in between speakers. I built OB in a small bedroom but with sound damping material from the floor to the ceiling.
Back to Open Baffles..... with Pure Audio Project Trio 15 Voxativ | HiFiVision.com
this is not mine (my OB setup was better than this picture) but it gives you an idea of what could be successful .
Yeah, ideally need waveguides from at least 1 kHz-up and preferably from ~300 Hz [which is too big for the space, so compromise at 500 Hz], plus seriously mismatched [mid] bass cabs to compensate for a [distant] corner loading on the left and a resonant cavern on the right, so recommend that at least go for the max height/width baffles you can negotiate.
GM
GM
The dogs seem to like them! Are those speakers the slim boxes which have the "bass extension" cap at input? I believe that just by removing the back & change the crossover (or just slap the woofer to a surface as big as...) will catapult you in the realm of OB!!
Or just use the woofer and adapt some different transducers for mid&treble. Less sensitivity you'll find easier to match& cross with the woofer. See the full range forum for woofer+full range.. Also series filter type(1st order) might work... Just some diy hint for starting..
Or just use the woofer and adapt some different transducers for mid&treble. Less sensitivity you'll find easier to match& cross with the woofer. See the full range forum for woofer+full range.. Also series filter type(1st order) might work... Just some diy hint for starting..
replacing the flooring
I was a bit confused when this was moved from one forum section to another without me catching a notice about it if one was sent - that's why I was confused by responses.
Lots of work to do before attempting speaker design.
The wood laminate flooring was improperly installed before we bought the home. No underlay, that means moisture made the floor buckle and it needs to be replaced. That sucks from the perspective of the need to disassemble the audio rack.
It is to be replaced with something that should hold up under heavy dog nails as well as a compromise for a listening space. This is the space I have, property values here climbed too much so will most likely be living here a long time. I don't have the luxury of adding a listening room. I'll be deaf before I move again. The existing rug is at the end of its life (over 40 years), something cheaper will replace it.
A product called "luxury vinyl flooring" is in the running to replace the laminate wood.
Good or bad for listening space?
I was a bit confused when this was moved from one forum section to another without me catching a notice about it if one was sent - that's why I was confused by responses.
Lots of work to do before attempting speaker design.
The wood laminate flooring was improperly installed before we bought the home. No underlay, that means moisture made the floor buckle and it needs to be replaced. That sucks from the perspective of the need to disassemble the audio rack.
It is to be replaced with something that should hold up under heavy dog nails as well as a compromise for a listening space. This is the space I have, property values here climbed too much so will most likely be living here a long time. I don't have the luxury of adding a listening room. I'll be deaf before I move again. The existing rug is at the end of its life (over 40 years), something cheaper will replace it.
A product called "luxury vinyl flooring" is in the running to replace the laminate wood.
Good or bad for listening space?
At ground level, this room is acoustically a freaking nightmare, so the mostly easy way around it is to go high, angled down, which when canted down > 12? degs included solves lots of reflection problems as everything turns into what's called 'slap echo' decay, allows putting OBs near walls, is above intruding furniture, don't care how crappy the floor is, etc.. Obviously more hassle to install and for some is zero WAF, but you asked.
GM
GM
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