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Controlled vs wide dispersion in a normal living room environment..
Controlled vs wide dispersion in a normal living room environment..
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Old 14th February 2019, 11:28 AM   #681
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Controlled vs wide dispersion in a normal living room environment..
Quote:
Originally Posted by 33Polkhigh View Post
Its my understanding that all things equal direct sound will sound louder than reverberant because its hits you all at once, so its more intense.
Louder isn't the adjective normally used, but it does convey the sense of it - "more noticeable." In rooms with a lot of reflections the overall tonal balance is affected by the amount of those reflections. Meaning that the ratio of direct vs reflected sound has a significant influence on the tonal balance, let alone the other qualities mentioned in this thread.

Of course for cinema sound, killing early reflections is an important goal related to the clarity of the dialog. That's a quality less important in music.
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Old 14th February 2019, 11:42 AM   #682
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Controlled vs wide dispersion in a normal living room environment..
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Originally Posted by soundbloke View Post
I have mentioned treating the M and S channels separately, narrow-angle reproduction and shuffling. But each of these is "off-topic" and probably warrant threads of their own.
See here: Fixing the Stereo Phantom Center
And here: The making of: The Two Towers (a 25 driver Full Range line array)
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Old 14th February 2019, 12:46 PM   #683
soundbloke is offline soundbloke  United Kingdom
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Thank you, but I mentioned these issues not to fix them, but rather to highlight something the room is required to do if they are not fixed.
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Old 14th February 2019, 01:40 PM   #684
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
Unfortunately, bias in the human mind makes that approach almost useless. I have seen it shown to be invalid in so many cases that I simply rule out this kind of "experimentation".
Doesn't it depend on what you are trying to achieve? I suspect I prefer more direct sound than reflections due to finding nearfield listening more realistic. I'm sure many here have experimented in the best ways they can and find at some point things seem to click into place and sound right. It's going to depend very much on the recording so I don't see how there can be a one size fits all solution. I would love speakers with adjustable directivity, next best solution is positioning and treatment, but this thread doesn't really allow for treatment, so positioning is all that's really left for many of us?
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Old 14th February 2019, 02:45 PM   #685
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by scottjoplin View Post
Doesn't it depend on what you are trying to achieve? I suspect I prefer more direct sound than reflections due to finding nearfield listening more realistic. I'm sure many here have experimented in the best ways they can and find at some point things seem to click into place and sound right. It's going to depend very much on the recording so I don't see how there can be a one size fits all solution. I would love speakers with adjustable directivity, next best solution is positioning and treatment, but this thread doesn't really allow for treatment, so positioning is all that's really left for many of us?
Of course there are variations. It depends on many factors. Some can do this better than others. For example, in the ten "expert" evaluators at Ford, only two were found to be reliable in a gauge capability study. And then there is the time that I made numerous changes to a system and the evaluators agreed that it improved each step even though I had gone in a circle.

I find that time is a good rule. Listen a lot and things can be revealed. But you have to balance that against the fact that we also get acclimated to problems and tend to not hear them anymore. All-in-all its a complex situation. One where somewhere along the line to have to have concrete objective measures to stabilize the evaluations.

I think that it does "depend very much on the recording" but I find that there are two basic classes and some grey areas in between. The extremes are the in-venue recording of acoustic instruments (orchestra) and the wholy studio work where there is no venue acoustic in the recording. Optimization of one will not mean optimization of the other.
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Old 14th February 2019, 02:54 PM   #686
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Originally Posted by 33Polkhigh View Post
You talk about things like spaciousness and imaging and that's all perceptual and has never even been shown to exist.
Of course they exist. Spaciousness has a clear and well accepted definition in acoustics. Imaging not so much, but we all know it exists.
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Old 14th February 2019, 03:21 PM   #687
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Controlled vs wide dispersion in a normal living room environment..
SY was convinced that "Imaging" is nothing but a marketing term.
But I have to say that when I heard his speakers, they imaged darn well.
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Old 14th February 2019, 04:32 PM   #688
Jakob2 is offline Jakob2  Germany
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Originally Posted by 33Polkhigh View Post
You talk about things like spaciousness and imaging and that's all perceptual and has never even been shown to exist.
Unfortunately there is up to now no standardized vocabulary that all parties agreed upon, but as a guide some of the EBU (European Broadcasting Union) recommendations can be helpful, see for example the

EBU Technology & Innovation - Assessment Methods for the Quality of Sound Material - Music

for the assessment of the sound quality of music programm material.
Main paramters (sub parameters as well) and their meaning are listed/explained along with some adjectives commonly used for description on pages 14/15 .

There even exists a collection of sound samples to illustrate some of the parameters and the describing adjectives:

https://tech.ebu.ch/files/live/sites.../PEQS_FLAC.zip

and the booklet:

https://tech.ebu.ch/files/live/sites...h/tech3287.pdf


Overall the calibration/synchronization of the vocabulary for the description of sound/music perception is a very important point and helps a lot to get a useful discussion.
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Old 14th February 2019, 04:42 PM   #689
33Polkhigh is offline 33Polkhigh  United States
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Let me say I certainly believe that imaging and other qualities exist, just that they haven't been isolated beyond people's perceptions. Irony exists, but can't be measured. Sometimes people get too wrapped in scientific pretense to actually understand things.
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Old 14th February 2019, 04:56 PM   #690
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Controlled vs wide dispersion in a normal living room environment..
Of course people never get too wrapped up in Voodoo and hearsay to actually understand things.
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