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-   -   Fane Sovereign 12-250TC and a low power SET amp (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/340045-fane-sovereign-12-250tc-low-power-set-amp.html)

waxx 9th July 2019 09:23 PM

Fane Sovereign 12-250TC and a low power SET amp
 
I'm looking with a lot of interest to this driver, and heared it in a 12v reggaesoundsystem in a large (360L) ported box with a 300w class D amp sounding very good.

I was wondering, for my living room and with the 100-98dB/1W/1m (depending on the source) if this speaker could be used with a low power SE amp. I have a EL-84 3W SE amp here that i could use for it. In theory i should have enough headroom on the amp (i mostly listen at 70-85dB at home) for it. But will that be enough to move that heavy cone and get real subbass out of it? Does anybody have experience with it with a low power amp, prefereable a SE of a few watts?

A 360L ported box models very good with this driver (or at least the pusblished T/S parameters), flat till mid 30's and F10 at +/- 26Hz...

Scottmoose 10th July 2019 10:45 AM

As far as the amplifier is concerned the weight of the driver cone in & of itself is neither here nor there; ease of drive is simply a question of driver sensitivity & the impedance load presented.

Keep in mind with your box alignment that you'll need to factor in the output impedance of your amplifier, which will have the effect of artificially raising the effective Q. 2.5ohms isn't particularly unusual for a single-ended amp, sometimes increasing to 4ohms or beyond.

Dinolobe 11th July 2019 11:56 AM

I’m very interested in hearing some first hand experiences of this speaker too !

Waxx, why do you stick to the 12" when the 15-300TC has a much flatter curve below 100hz and should put out bass more easily ? It isn’t a lot more expensive and if you consider a 360l enclosure, space doesn’t seem to be an issue too !

Steve Cresswell 11th July 2019 12:17 PM

Just over a year ago, I built a pair of 80L sealed boxes for my Fane 12-250TC drivers.
They are powered by a 1W single tube OTL amp and are capable of rattling my living room windows.
To be honest, they are so good in my room, that I can’t see me ever getting rid of them.
On the end of a tube amplifier, in a big ported box (or even better, aperiodic) these drivers ought to sound stunning.
I’ll never be able to accommodate such big cabs, so I can only dream, unfortunately. :)

waxx 11th July 2019 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dinolobe (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/340045-fane-sovereign-12-250tc-low-power-set-amp-post5848632.html#post5848632)
Iím very interested in hearing some first hand experiences of this speaker too !

Waxx, why do you stick to the 12" when the 15-300TC has a much flatter curve below 100hz and should put out bass more easily ? It isnít a lot more expensive and if you consider a 360l enclosure, space doesnít seem to be an issue too !



The sim i did gave me accurate bass untill 30hz on a smaller footprint. The 15 needs a case of 750l to do the same, vs a 360l for the 12. And that is too big for my space

Dinolobe 11th July 2019 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waxx (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/340045-fane-sovereign-12-250tc-low-power-set-amp-post5848655.html#post5848655)
The sim i did gave me accurate bass untill 30hz on a smaller footprint. The 15 needs a case of 750l to do the same, vs a 360l for the 12. And that is too big for my space

Didnít know that there was such a difference in volume between the 12" and the 15", but itís logical when you think of it. Adding 3" in diameter adds roughly 63 square inches more cone area...

ICG 11th July 2019 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waxx (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/340045-fane-sovereign-12-250tc-low-power-set-amp-post5847197.html#post5847197)
I was wondering, for my living room and with the 100-98dB/1W/1m (depending on the source) if this speaker could be used with a low power SE amp.

They have a very high Re and minimum impedance of 7,2 and 7,4 Ohm compared to other '8 Ohm' drivers, a ~6,5 Ohm Re is the average '8 Ohm' driver. It's 98dB on 2,83V up to 1,5kHz but on 1W actual power it's 100dB. Further deviations can come from the averaging (which frequency range is choosen). So no mystery there, plenty of spl either way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by waxx (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/340045-fane-sovereign-12-250tc-low-power-set-amp-post5847197.html#post5847197)
I have a EL-84 3W SE amp here that i could use for it. In theory i should have enough headroom on the amp (i mostly listen at 70-85dB at home) for it. But will that be enough to move that heavy cone and get real subbass out of it? Does anybody have experience with it with a low power amp, prefereable a SE of a few watts?

With 3W you'll reach ~102 dB with the 12-250TC. That's more than the average party. :D ;)
For the bass the damping factor is important but also the principle of the enclosure. With a ~100l sealed enclosure you'll have a quite defined and 'quick' impulse answer in the bass, -3dB is at 58Hz, which doesn't sound impressive by reading it but the -8dB point is at ~39Hz, -10dB@35Hz, which actually IS impressive, especally because that's even without the roomgain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by waxx (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/340045-fane-sovereign-12-250tc-low-power-set-amp-post5847197.html#post5847197)
A 360L ported box models very good with this driver (or at least the pusblished T/S parameters), flat till mid 30's and F10 at +/- 26Hz...

In most rooms the sealed enclosure sounds a lot better, more precise and defined. With the high Qts you could also build a transmissionline, it will be smaller than the ported version. I presume you'd likely more satisfied with the more precise 100-150l sealed enclosure which slope combined with your roomgain will likely result in a mostly flat response down to 30Hz.

planet10 11th July 2019 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dinolobe (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/340045-fane-sovereign-12-250tc-low-power-set-amp-post5848632.html#post5848632)
why do you stick to the 12" when the 15-300TC has a much flatter curve below 100hz and should put out bass more easily ?

Bass is very box dependent and the 15 really needs a MUCH larger box (or a wall into the next room)

dave

ICG 11th July 2019 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planet10 (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/340045-fane-sovereign-12-250tc-low-power-set-amp-post5848909.html#post5848909)
Bass is very box dependent and the 15 really needs a MUCH larger box (or a wall into the next room)

Yes, that's ofcourse right. The Vas is directly dependent on the Sd (cone surface) and since the 15" got (naturally) a much larger cone surface AND an even higher Qts, it will automatically need a much, MUCH larger enclosure.

planet10 11th July 2019 08:09 PM

Quote:

… Vas is directly dependent on the Sd (cone surface) ...
Only in a very non-general sense. There are so many other factors that play just as large a role in Vas.

dave


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