I put up a previous similar thread and it didn’t receivemuch response as I think it covered to broad a question so I am starting thisnew one with a more detailed proposal/query.
I have a 4 way active set up using an active sub, 18” FaneColossus XB in open baffle 60 – 400ish, Beyma 12” (12p80nd) 400ish – 2k and aBeyma TPL150 from 2k up.
My plan is to replace the 12” and TPL150 with a 200Hztractrix horn with a BMS 4592 coaxial covering the whole range from 300 to 400Hz all the way up.
I am in a dedicated room with dedicated seat and sweet spotlistening position. The tractrix horn would be vertically centred at ear heightand toed in to suit.
Is this solution with better point source, phase and timealignment above the 18” driver a better solution than having a 200Hz horn witha non-coax driver up to 5k, or thereabouts, and the TPL or a second, smallertractrix playing above this?
My concern is that playing such a wide range will be toomuch of a compromise playing through a single horn, but then that defeats theobject of the coaxial driver, which in theory covers 300 to 22k, so BMS musthave envisaged that the driver would be used in this way.
Any thoughts on my proposals would be most appreciated.
KR
Keith
I have a 4 way active set up using an active sub, 18” FaneColossus XB in open baffle 60 – 400ish, Beyma 12” (12p80nd) 400ish – 2k and aBeyma TPL150 from 2k up.
My plan is to replace the 12” and TPL150 with a 200Hztractrix horn with a BMS 4592 coaxial covering the whole range from 300 to 400Hz all the way up.
I am in a dedicated room with dedicated seat and sweet spotlistening position. The tractrix horn would be vertically centred at ear heightand toed in to suit.
Is this solution with better point source, phase and timealignment above the 18” driver a better solution than having a 200Hz horn witha non-coax driver up to 5k, or thereabouts, and the TPL or a second, smallertractrix playing above this?
My concern is that playing such a wide range will be toomuch of a compromise playing through a single horn, but then that defeats theobject of the coaxial driver, which in theory covers 300 to 22k, so BMS musthave envisaged that the driver would be used in this way.
Any thoughts on my proposals would be most appreciated.
KR
Keith
What are the problems from 300 to 500 Hz and also above 4kHz? If there are such problems why do BMS persist with it if it cant be used over the full range that they say? Not being awkward, would just like to know why.
Keith,
From my personal experience, using a Sierra Brooks (unfortunately, no longer made) 250hz solid mahogany tractrix horn, I found the BMS 4592 coax driver to be a little hard and bright sounding over a trial period of about 6 weeks using various SET amplifiers. I found the JBL 2441 equally detailed but much more relaxed when used at 450hz to 6kz. This is subjective listening without measurements. Just because a driver can go very low and very high does not mean it will sound its best at the extremes. I use a TAD ET-703 tweeter and also have a pair of Fostex T500A MK2 tweeters that are also excellent. If you look at Cessaro horns, Avantgarde, Living Voice etc. you will notice none of them use a single driver / horn to cover the entire range from 400hz and up. The answer, can it be done, YES, will it sound better then using a good tweeter covering the high frequencies IMHO, No. I have since moved to the Classic Audio 2" field coil drives with beryllium diaphragms and my driver search has ended !! Another possible option is a TAD horn or clone (EBAY) and a used pair of TAD 4001 drivers. Sometimes it pays to buy right, and cry once !!! Hope this info helps. Good luck,
Horns: - Horns by Auto-Tech
From my personal experience, using a Sierra Brooks (unfortunately, no longer made) 250hz solid mahogany tractrix horn, I found the BMS 4592 coax driver to be a little hard and bright sounding over a trial period of about 6 weeks using various SET amplifiers. I found the JBL 2441 equally detailed but much more relaxed when used at 450hz to 6kz. This is subjective listening without measurements. Just because a driver can go very low and very high does not mean it will sound its best at the extremes. I use a TAD ET-703 tweeter and also have a pair of Fostex T500A MK2 tweeters that are also excellent. If you look at Cessaro horns, Avantgarde, Living Voice etc. you will notice none of them use a single driver / horn to cover the entire range from 400hz and up. The answer, can it be done, YES, will it sound better then using a good tweeter covering the high frequencies IMHO, No. I have since moved to the Classic Audio 2" field coil drives with beryllium diaphragms and my driver search has ended !! Another possible option is a TAD horn or clone (EBAY) and a used pair of TAD 4001 drivers. Sometimes it pays to buy right, and cry once !!! Hope this info helps. Good luck,
Horns: - Horns by Auto-Tech
The BMS coaxes don't like to play that low. As mentioned such a large trax will beam like a lighthouse; I know as I spent a lot of money to have a custom unit turned up and it was awful. I ended up with the Arai 290 unit and the 4590 from 700Hz up in a 5 way FLH system. They're hard to do a great passive xover for - I went active and fixed it's faults that way.
I am using Najda active xover and DSP so no problem there. The guy who is building the tractrix uses one himself, previously with 2" JBL and now with Vitavox S2 .
That sounds like the way to go in order to get that 400 ish to 5k ish region covered.
Anyone know of any good condition JBL 2" drivers for sale :-D
That sounds like the way to go in order to get that 400 ish to 5k ish region covered.
Anyone know of any good condition JBL 2" drivers for sale :-D
M200 drivers are a good midrange compression driver too. https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...les/M200.PDF&usg=AOvVaw1hYLHJY2KKiLQWASYCWLQE
BMS 4592 vs Community M200
Hi,
I have had both the BMS 4592ND and the Community M200 in a Jabo KH53 horn. Within the 500-3,500 frequency range, the M200 sounds more natural and relaxed than the BMS - maybe due to the lower compression ratio. The frequency range of the M200 is restricted (especially compared to a coax like the BMS), but within its range, it is excellent!
IIRC, djk (R.I.P.) had a friend who could not differentiate between the M200 and a TAD 4001 in the same horn, in the frequency range mentioned before. Besides, the M200 is fairly priced.
Best regards
Peter
Hi,
I have had both the BMS 4592ND and the Community M200 in a Jabo KH53 horn. Within the 500-3,500 frequency range, the M200 sounds more natural and relaxed than the BMS - maybe due to the lower compression ratio. The frequency range of the M200 is restricted (especially compared to a coax like the BMS), but within its range, it is excellent!
IIRC, djk (R.I.P.) had a friend who could not differentiate between the M200 and a TAD 4001 in the same horn, in the frequency range mentioned before. Besides, the M200 is fairly priced.
Best regards
Peter
From 300-500Hz i can hear resonance and 4khz and up is very high harmonic distortions. There is also resonance in 3khz too - with need to be equalized.
After BMS midrange i also try M200 - and yes its more relaxed sound. But it won't go lower than 600hz.
Well, in a sufficiently large horn the M200 will definitely go lower than 600 Hz. The attached file is raw measures when mounted in the app. 350 Hz Jabo KH53 horn.
Best regards
Peter
Best regards
Peter
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