I had my first experience with next-level audio quality when I built a vintage Mullard 3-watt tube mono amp about 2 years ago. I don't consider myself an audiophile but had been curious about tube hi-fi after having built several guitar amps. For the speaker, I built a bass reflex box with a $60 Fostex 4.5" full range driver (box and port tube specs included with the driver). The under $100 total cost seemed a good price for 93db efficiency. When I fired it up for the first time I was stunned at the immediacy/realism even within the set-up's obviously limited scope. Now, I'm going stereo with a rebuild of an early 60's tube console amp and want to consider all speaker options. I already have the matching driver and port tube to make a pair with my first Fostex box, but I'm also looking at commercial multi-way bookshelf speakers in the $200-250 per new speaker price point. My question is, could this price point yield a genuine step up in audio quality? I realize this is a very subjective question, but what I'm really getting at is what might might a speaker that is effectively my Fostex box in substance/quality cost in the Crutchfield catalog with a professional build, finish, and name? Would it potentially be an apples to apples comparison with those costing $200-250, and preference a matter of personal taste? Or is there still room for further overall wow-factor with a pro-built multi-way?
Thanks!
Joe
Thanks!
Joe
I doubt very much if a $500 pair of commercial speakers would compare favourably with two of your home built Fostex cabinets. Most of that $500 goes on the cabinets, crossovers and the markups of the manufacturer, wholesaler and retailer. In my opinion, two Fostex speakers in well built, home made cabinets will give better value for money as well as better performance.
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Joe, to be profitable at a retail location the speaker drivers may be no more than 10% of the total price.
If a speaker maker makes their own drivers, it can be less than that.
So use that as a guide.
I built speakers with $1,400 worth of drivers which you'll find in Gryphon and Wilson speakers, among others.
Best,
E
If a speaker maker makes their own drivers, it can be less than that.
So use that as a guide.
I built speakers with $1,400 worth of drivers which you'll find in Gryphon and Wilson speakers, among others.
Best,
E
There's no real correlation between parts cost and value, by the way.
Just because I spent $1,400 on drivers does not mean I ended up with anything worth listening to.
On the other hand, the value of knowing you put it together and that it sounds exactly like what you want is pretty priceless.
Just because I spent $1,400 on drivers does not mean I ended up with anything worth listening to.
On the other hand, the value of knowing you put it together and that it sounds exactly like what you want is pretty priceless.
You are absolutely right about everything about you just said.
Before buying the Klipsch I spent a lot of time and money for building my own cabinets. It went very well because I work in that field(carpentry) . But when it came to the drivers and crossover parts, it did not go well at all. The caps are not cheap, the Inductor Crossover Coils are not cheap and the drivers can get extremely expensive .
Indeed I dont get that type of DIY feeling with the Klipsch speakers . But I will upgrade the capacitors (btw those are all yellow MKT poliester 100v ) to polypropylene mkp 250-600v .
Before buying the Klipsch I spent a lot of time and money for building my own cabinets. It went very well because I work in that field(carpentry) . But when it came to the drivers and crossover parts, it did not go well at all. The caps are not cheap, the Inductor Crossover Coils are not cheap and the drivers can get extremely expensive .
Indeed I dont get that type of DIY feeling with the Klipsch speakers . But I will upgrade the capacitors (btw those are all yellow MKT poliester 100v ) to polypropylene mkp 250-600v .
Great info all around. I think for now I'll go ahead and make the Fostex pair, confident that they'll perform respectably for their class, size, type, etc. In the future, maybe some narrow floor-standing speakers with upgraded crossover components would be a worthy alternative, if only for the orientation and logistics of multiple drivers.
Thanks again!
Joe
Thanks again!
Joe
Joe- if I read the link correctly you’re looking at the FE 126En. This little guy benefits from a backloaded horn for best bass performance, so in a small vented box be prepared for a light couple of bottom octaves, which regardless of power on tap can’t be cured by EQ without running into its excursion limitations. They will also exhibit a rather very forward presentation in the near field, particularly during the first few dozens -if not hundreds - of hours of play.
Lots of complex woodworking to get your teeth into with this 'back loaded horn + bass reflex hybrid enclosure'!
https://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_components/pdf/FE126En.pdf
https://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_components/pdf/FE126En.pdf
Actually I could by the pieces here. Otherwise, would this option be much of an upgrade? The drivers are slightly smaller, less efficient than mine (89 vs 93 db) and this is significant given I'll be driving with three and ten-watt tube amps (actually, if it will work with the ten-watt that's fine). However they are proper horn-loaded enclosures. This is going way out on a limb, but would shoe-horning my FE126en's into these enclosures be a good pairing? The enclosures can be purchased without the drivers.
Joe
Joe
Galu-FWIW, I built a pair of those over a decade ago and honestly can’t say anything positive about them. If one is looking to achieve close to this driver’s full potential unaided by supplementary woofers, I can think of 4 backloaded horns that I’ve personally built that would definitely do a better job:
- Buschhorn MkI ( similar to the Hornshoppe Horn)
- Ron Clarke A126
- FrugalHorn Mk3
- Madisound BK12
None of these are compact, nor simple afternoon projects. The last two members of above list are by the same designer- Scott Lindgren.
Edit: Joe, if you’ve got the room and could afford the BK12, I think they’d be your best bet.
- Buschhorn MkI ( similar to the Hornshoppe Horn)
- Ron Clarke A126
- FrugalHorn Mk3
- Madisound BK12
None of these are compact, nor simple afternoon projects. The last two members of above list are by the same designer- Scott Lindgren.
Edit: Joe, if you’ve got the room and could afford the BK12, I think they’d be your best bet.
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BTW, when I built the last one it was with help from a friend with a shop who has since moved. I would not attempt any actual build at this point beyond one more bass reflex box like my first one (Dad's got a friend, etc.) unless it was a small to mid-sized kit with the parts already cut and only needing assembly.
Joe
Joe
The Madisound option would be the better choice.
The Fostex speakers, as has been pointed out by chrisb, are very bass light unless mounted in a a back loaded horn, which is the type of loading they were designed for.
Avoid the second option - do not try to shoe horn your drivers into enclosures that are not specifically designed for them.
Thanks for that observation. I have not yet ventured into horn territory as the construction is so complex. These flat pack kits look very tempting though!
So the attached photo is what I have. I live in a small apartment that does have decent soundproof construction, so I can get away with moderate but not super high volume. I'll seldom be much more than 8 feet from the speakers, 5 or 6 might be normal. Within these confines, does the Madisound kit with the horn loaded cabinets have the potential to be a better, fuller overall sound quality? I'm not a huge bass guy, and too much might even be problematic for my apartment. I will say that with my current speaker, that fact that I can hear the bass but not yet feel it on the floor might be optimal. Then again maybe the way it's sitting up helps there?
Attachments
Again, what really got me about this speaker with my tube amp off the gate was just the overall, holistic, visceral life-like realism/presence. I realize that is about as un-quantitative as you can get with an audio description, but that is what, if anything, I would like to improve upon if possible w/in price range (originally $4-500 pair commercial) more so than just better bass response.
Thanks again to all!
Joe
Thanks again to all!
Joe
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