Howdy all, I finished up my latest living room set of speakers (we're on rotation number four at this point, I think) and I thought I'd share some pictures. Hopefully counts as full range, since it's FAST, but if not toss me over into multi-way. They're made with the Dayton Audio Ultra exciters from PE for wideband duties, supported by PE buyout Titan subwoofers in a SLOB configuration. Two exciters per channel, two woofers per channel four eight total drivers.... Sure is a lot for a FAST system 
If you've never done DML panels before, I'd highly recommend trying them. They're super simple, just mix PVA glue with water 50/50 and roll it on sanded XPS panels.
ANYWAY, I bet you wanna know how it performs. I don't have a calibrated mic, so you'll have to accept my less-than-well-trained ears as judgement. Vocals on this are FANTASTIC, that's something DML panels just really excel at. Orchestral stuff is good, jazz is great, but surprisingly, these are good enough that you could play a small EDM show and get away with it. Just running sine sweeps, you feel 15 Hz. They start to really get loud around 27 Hz. The issues arise when you get up into the 200 Hz range and start dealing with cavity resonance, but they're crossed well below that with the wideband DMLs taking over around 150. The biggest problem, I think, is that I'm running a car audio active crossover that only does first order. I'll probably switch to miniDSP soon, but I'm moving house in a month, so it'll have to wait until after that. Anyway, pictures below!
If you've never done DML panels before, I'd highly recommend trying them. They're super simple, just mix PVA glue with water 50/50 and roll it on sanded XPS panels.
ANYWAY, I bet you wanna know how it performs. I don't have a calibrated mic, so you'll have to accept my less-than-well-trained ears as judgement. Vocals on this are FANTASTIC, that's something DML panels just really excel at. Orchestral stuff is good, jazz is great, but surprisingly, these are good enough that you could play a small EDM show and get away with it. Just running sine sweeps, you feel 15 Hz. They start to really get loud around 27 Hz. The issues arise when you get up into the 200 Hz range and start dealing with cavity resonance, but they're crossed well below that with the wideband DMLs taking over around 150. The biggest problem, I think, is that I'm running a car audio active crossover that only does first order. I'll probably switch to miniDSP soon, but I'm moving house in a month, so it'll have to wait until after that. Anyway, pictures below!
They're off-center. 2/5 of the way from the top and the same into one side. They're mirrored, so they're offset from the left edge of the left speaker and from the right side of the right speaker. I don't think it actually makes a difference to sound reproduction, but since the backs of the speaker are fully exposed I think it looks better that way. Seriously though, Perceval, I would give it a shot. I don't know how easy it is to get XPS insulation in Taiwan, but you can do the same thing with foamcore with the same treatment, and I've heard corrugated plastic works well too. Hell, straight up styrofoam will do the job.
just a note. we are working hard to lose the generally dislike term FAST WITH WAW — Woofer Assisted Wideband.
dave
Nice work! I like the frame and suspension arrangement. Painting black looks a lot better than pink color with manufacturers label.
I’m sure they sound good and with a sub to support - will have some power behind them. I missed what you are using for XO? Or full range with DMLs at present and plate amp XO low pass on sub?
One other idea for sub for FAST are very nicely made low cost consumer HT subs like Polk PSW10. $89 and is does a very decent job. You just need to add your own top of whatever it is.
I’m sure they sound good and with a sub to support - will have some power behind them. I missed what you are using for XO? Or full range with DMLs at present and plate amp XO low pass on sub?
One other idea for sub for FAST are very nicely made low cost consumer HT subs like Polk PSW10. $89 and is does a very decent job. You just need to add your own top of whatever it is.
Hi XRK,
I actually use india ink to color the panels, I've tried paint before and it actually affects the sound - sounds veiled, distant. I've read that with these you're really listening to the "skin" of the material, so I guess that makes sense.
As far as Xover goes, I'm running a $30 Planet Audio car crossover off Amazon - kind of a mistake, I think. I've been struggling to isolate a ground loop since I set it up.
I forgot to mention, but I've got the subs running off of a late-90s model Pioneer AV receiver and the panels off of one of those 20WPC Lepai amps. Sorta visible in the background is the fifth (and singular mono) sub, one of the 100W 10" Dayton subs, don't remember the model off the top of my head.
Edit: The Dayton sub only kicks in under 40 Hz
I actually use india ink to color the panels, I've tried paint before and it actually affects the sound - sounds veiled, distant. I've read that with these you're really listening to the "skin" of the material, so I guess that makes sense.
As far as Xover goes, I'm running a $30 Planet Audio car crossover off Amazon - kind of a mistake, I think. I've been struggling to isolate a ground loop since I set it up.
I forgot to mention, but I've got the subs running off of a late-90s model Pioneer AV receiver and the panels off of one of those 20WPC Lepai amps. Sorta visible in the background is the fifth (and singular mono) sub, one of the 100W 10" Dayton subs, don't remember the model off the top of my head.
Edit: The Dayton sub only kicks in under 40 Hz
Cool, I wasn't sure looking at the pictures from the iPad.
We got XPS here as well... juts found it last year! We have 2cm and 3cm thick panels. Wondering which would be better, thinner or thicker...
I'd say that would depend on the size of the panel you want to make. For smaller panels (think less than 60 cm on the longest side) you would probably want to go with the 2 cm stuff, and for anything bigger than that go with the 3 cm. For the bigger panels, you want a bit more structural rigidity to be able to handle some bass. Just as a personal anecdote, I have some 22"x33" panels (sorry to switch to imperial but that's what I measured them in) that I made with 2 cm stock, and they're somewhat disappointing due to low SPL limitations for bass reproduction. The whole panel flexes massively and actually causes the shorting rings on the exciters to connect. The thinner panels are better for HF reproduction, though.
I'm by no means an expert, of course, but just a bit of personal experience
Edit: the panels on these are 25 mm thick
Dayton Audio DAEX32U-4 Ultra 32mm Exciter 20W 4 Ohm
So nobody has to dig, here's the link to the exciters I used. Wired in series in this case to present an 8ohm load to my amp, it's not fond of 4ohm, and definitely doesn't like 2ohm so parallel was out.
So nobody has to dig, here's the link to the exciters I used. Wired in series in this case to present an 8ohm load to my amp, it's not fond of 4ohm, and definitely doesn't like 2ohm so parallel was out.
That would absolutely work, and I bet it would sound amazing, too. Personally, though, if you're going to run big panels in two-way, I would suggest crossing them around 8-10K with a supertweeter, because even the panels that are 1m on a side don't really start to fall off until somewhere around 12k. The biggest reason I switched to the smaller panels was actually floor real estate, not dissatisfaction with frequency range. Of course, the big advantage of crossing low to the small panels would be preventing the loss of cohesion that a higher Xover might cause... Knowing your posts, if you play around with it you'll probably come up with something that sounds spectacular.
If you want to spend several afternoons learning about DML panels and see a pretty good summary of their development in the DIY community over the last several years, this thread has 69 pages of discussion, measurements, and techniques since 2014. I've read most of it, though, so if you have any specific questions about my build or DMLs in general, feel free to ask, because this is a DEEP rabbit hole.
DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
Thank you for the links.
I have a 3-week vacation starting in a couple of days, and 22-hour flights! .... sounds like a good time for reading long threads!
When I come back, I hope to start testing DML panels. I'm really interested, and thanks for the nudge! I just might have questions later!
It will be interesting to test them against my other two setups... OB with 15" woofer and 8" full range, and 4" cardio speakers with 8" subs support.
I have a 3-week vacation starting in a couple of days, and 22-hour flights! .... sounds like a good time for reading long threads!
When I come back, I hope to start testing DML panels. I'm really interested, and thanks for the nudge! I just might have questions later!
It will be interesting to test them against my other two setups... OB with 15" woofer and 8" full range, and 4" cardio speakers with 8" subs support.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.