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-   -   War of the 10" monster midbasses (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/324260-war-10-monster-midbasses.html)

OscarS 24th June 2018 04:32 AM

War of the 10" monster midbasses
 
Round 1 of the war of the monster 10" Midbasses -

On Axis FR and Harmonic Distortion.


Ciare NDH 10-3's
vs
Faital Pro 10FH520's
vs
Faital Pro 10FH530's
vs
Faital Pro 10HP1020's
vs
Eighteen Sound 10NW750's

(plus in the future: vs B&C 10PLB76's vs Beyma 10MC700ND's vs Eighteen Sound 10NDA610's).

The theme here is minimum 3" voice coils, minimum 400W RMS/AES power handling, most with flux demodulating rings, ~4-6mm Xmax. This is Texas, go big or go home (except for pricing, lol, looking to stay under $300 per driver limit). Hoping for good low-distortion performance. Intended frequency range use is about 150-200Hz on the low-end, and 1.0-1.5kHz on the top end.


https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...RpKc6Dk2VMoRF1

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...53qN9tfep3jMWP

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...-wPW3IBWCJklEz

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...b9wJKTw8HELdyh

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...SOWJI29MtZslB_

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...Cp67XVBU6Zt0MW

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...LKqh4XDyPL1mb5

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...yHUIRVOK0If4Fi

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...pA9ylizK1kq8ZL

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...Vj7I7Dm__dOchy

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...XzETbS-5SWa1ag

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...J66LSAqA2PxdYq

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...gS72HzMrbVw5_l

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...vHiPaKg2HL84Kx

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...PNuPYl8H3ciPQd





Individual Drivers - On-Axis Frequency Response - 2.83V, 1 meter, in-room, including reflections


Ciare NDH 10-3's

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...qRXPPT6R9v5OXn


Faital Pro 10FH520's
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...lLwuIgjcXeoaaK


Faital Pro 10FH530's
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...mPR0fxPVzHw5Dz


Faital Pro 10HP1020's
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...03TReEjDHUBrXP


Eighteen Sound 10NW750's
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...EA5LP9A5fDRtu-



All Drivers FR superimposed.

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...b6neWOk-8XHi8E

As expected from the FR graphs, the 10HP1020 is the "dullest" and the NDH10-3 is the "brightest" sounding. The funny thing is, all the Faital's and the 18 Sound drivers have demodulating rings in the motors, and Ciare says that the NDH10-3 does not have any kind of shorting/demodulating rings in the motor!.




Individual driver distortion performances. SPL levels at the specified 105-107 dB are @ 1m on-axis taken at ~500Hz.

Ciare NDH10-3

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...PdRbxl2QpTHjfQ
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...ojK_mR9dd1BOyr



Faital Pro 10FH530
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...6ROk2sLbSc2kZ-
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...dcAxCSI05POTxl



Faital Pro 10FH520
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...n3W19NDYMowhPO
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...WqRxd9_Ttev6IW


Faital Pro 10HP1020
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...quAQBTUedMkSJA
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...nWuNCjDXt_VeF3


Eighteen Sound 10NW750
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...bbm92Oo95SYXEH
An externally hosted image should be here but it is no longer accessible. Please upload images instead of linking to them to prevent this.




This last graph shows the THD of the 5 above midbasses superimposed into one chart, with the very last one being windowed from 80Hz-10kHz, from 0 to 4 % THD.
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...067z-lpaeAcvkI
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...tBeZSCQy73bejB



Next time I'll do some CSD plots and polar response plots. Maybe with some more midbasses. I had considered the AE TD10M but @ $460 fully loaded it's too much for this hobbyist, lol. I'm trying to get a hold of a pair of PD.103NR1's as well.



Here is a ZIP file containing all data thus far.

Ten Inch Midbass Drivers.zip

TMM 24th June 2018 05:59 AM

All of these are quite impressive. I expected much higher HD around 400-500Hz due to cone breakup.

freddi 24th June 2018 06:40 AM

that little Ciare is quite a performer

OscarS 24th June 2018 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddi (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/324260-war-10-monster-midbasses-post5471553.html#post5471553)
that little Ciare is quite a performer

Yup, that seems to be the consensus on the various forums.

cph2000 24th June 2018 10:11 AM

Thanks for sharing!

OscarS 1st July 2018 03:39 AM

News break, this just in! More data.

I added a B&C 10PLB76 and an 18 Sound 10NDA610 to this royal rumble.

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...6kxpPkqYm2xcms

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...zPQGNAtuBpYzrB

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...Qe-aoUiALEiUZ0

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...yMmiqPbS-oIUZo

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...3L_Pf5AiLvyJNx

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...CX8j8AmFYu6RwX

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...q8QLxFuSILIGLj

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...tHN4pxYLM9IF59






Same test conditions as before.

B&C 10PLB76 Frequency Response

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...tnh9yd07euucsU


B&C 10PLB76 Distortion Performance

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...TPbNtprrDn1A-_

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...oCUfpWNCTi9x7D




18 Sound 10NDA610 FR with and without AIC. The addition of AIC results in ~ +5dB hotter output from about 2kHz-upward, with the change starting around 1.5kHz.


https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...ZH--wwyOMf7gjq


Interestingly, the distortion with AIC decreases on the low-end but not on the high-end, but I guess it makes sense since it is not shorted, but rather in parallel to the voice coil.

Without AIC

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...hF-GhOrs8qVTHi


with AIC

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v..._BmUCn8UaXZKoC



and for the kicker, here it is with the AIC coil shorted to itself...

18 Sound NDA610 FR comparing without AIC, with AIC, and AIC shorted. A little bit hotter than without, but not as hot as with AIC on the top-end.

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...XH2r-8N2vmT0gy


18 Sound NDA610 Distortion with AIC shorted

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...D9n58DAy65DET9


18 Sound NDA610 Distortion Percentage with AIC, without AIC, and AIC shorted.


https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...16vceAN1mgwBvQ



18 Sound 10NDA610 Impedance/phase & T/S parameters via DATS V2

Without AIC.

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...qt38U-bjzgZmEJ


With AIC. Top-end impedance and phase shift near resonance definitely flattens out.
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...LdXOGhisblar-b


Shorted AIC. Impedance Peak and phase shift remains largely unaffected, but the top-end impedance does decrease.
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...H3x87995rBMunl


The inductance on my DATS V2 has never checked out compared to mfg spec sheets. 18 Sound claims 0.06mH @ 1kHz w/ AIC, DATS V2 shows ~0.8mH. Oh well, no biggie. I'm sure the DATS V2 has limitations.



18 Sound 10NDA610 Impedance/Phase combined.
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=v...WzALfKf8ybUtGU



Latest ZIP file with all info.

Ten Inch Midbass Drivers.zip

Lots more testing to do!!!

freddi 1st July 2018 04:36 AM

fantastic ongoing survey - wonder how the poor - man's Eminence Delta10a might fare (?)

ErnieM 1st July 2018 04:48 AM

Your DATS measurements are pretty much exactly the same as my WT3 results for the 10NDA610.

Nice to see quality control is tight.

OscarS 1st July 2018 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddi (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/324260-war-10-monster-midbasses-post5477764.html#post5477764)
fantastic ongoing survey - wonder how the poor - man's Eminence Delta10a might fare (?)

send it to me and I'll test it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErnieM (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/324260-war-10-monster-midbasses-post5477775.html#post5477775)
Your DATS measurements are pretty much exactly the same as my WT3 results for the 10NDA610.

Nice to see quality control is tight.

I was definitely impressed with the 10NW750, which is what led me to acquire the 10ND610.

Big thumbs-up :up: to Jay @ Loudspeakers Plus for providing me with great deals on all the 18 Sound speakers thus far!

LewinskiH01 1st July 2018 03:46 PM

Great thread!!

In fact I'm working on a 4-way with dual 10" midbasses and considering the 10NDA610 as midrange from 300 to 2000Hz, so fantastic to see your measurements. High efficiency and almost constant impedance when AIC is engaged makes it look like a great candidate to be driven by a dedicated SET.

BTW, I think the Le of 0.06mH is with AIC engaged. Was your measurement of 0.8mH with or without AIC?

The midbasses I'm working with are Beyma 10G40 to go from 80 to 300Hz. They match your criteria. Any plans to include in your shootout? :)


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