Hi
I used some silver plated mil-spec wire recently to repair a non-audio board. A search revealed much discussion in the audio sector.
I'm building a few amps and speakers soon and would like to use it. Is it suitable for mains voltage, rectified (50v) and line level?
What are suitable gauges etc?
Thank you
I used some silver plated mil-spec wire recently to repair a non-audio board. A search revealed much discussion in the audio sector.
I'm building a few amps and speakers soon and would like to use it. Is it suitable for mains voltage, rectified (50v) and line level?
What are suitable gauges etc?
Thank you
People are using it for low level audio signals and in speakers. They claim that Teflon is a superior isolator and thus it sounds better. Technically it's not easy to argue this. The best you can do is using it in one project, and exchange it to normal wire, and hear for yourself.
If I'm not completely wrong, solid core is only used ( and permitted so) where there's no chance of getting physical force on the wires, e.g. in walls and fixed installations. On all moveable parts, like signal wires for robots, highly flexible wire is used to get a higher life span.
Cheers,
Matthias
If I'm not completely wrong, solid core is only used ( and permitted so) where there's no chance of getting physical force on the wires, e.g. in walls and fixed installations. On all moveable parts, like signal wires for robots, highly flexible wire is used to get a higher life span.
Cheers,
Matthias
As a general rule yes, stranded is always used but if you have experienced Teflon in comparison To typical pvc stranded, Teflon will break quicker than other materials near a fixed soldered joint when flexing becomes an issue.
Teflon is physically a stronger material so stress applied to a cut and soldered joint produces a stress point that softer material coverings blend out allowing longer life cycles
I have personally seen this and used this kind of wire myself for 30 years and you must secure this area or it will break more easily.
It does take more heat to cover stranded wire with Teflon and not certain if this leads to a weaker copper structure, but just a speculation..
Teflon is physically a stronger material so stress applied to a cut and soldered joint produces a stress point that softer material coverings blend out allowing longer life cycles
I have personally seen this and used this kind of wire myself for 30 years and you must secure this area or it will break more easily.
It does take more heat to cover stranded wire with Teflon and not certain if this leads to a weaker copper structure, but just a speculation..
I use the stranded teflon wire in building point to point boards and chassis, as if your iron gets a little out of control while you are looking at the schematic, or you're wearing the wrong pair of reading glasses, you can't burn holes in it. Then you don't have to go back and rip out the bottom layer wire where the pvc is burned. Particularly annoying on multi-point connections where 4 or 5 wires are wrapped around one eyelet. It is usually the bottom wire that is burned.
24 ga is useful for everything but speaker level currents and main rail feed.
You do have to be careful stripping, as you can pull the entire insulation off a 3" wire if you don't cut all the way around.
Kynar is about as useful for not burning off, but only comes in 30 ga and 26 ga solid core, that I've found. Kynar Is quite a bit cheaper than teflon since is usually surplus. The solid wire is a bit easier to break when you bend it around an eyelet.
The silver plate draws solder nicely, but is not why I buy the stuff. Sound would be exactly the same as copper IMHO.
Factories building point to point figured out each wire as it was built to make sure that the risk of burning insulation was not there. They built things to wirelists, which went exactly in order. Every point had a name. A whole extra step after drawing the schematic diagram. I did that work in designing ground support equipment, but that is a lot of time to engineer a one-off project, I don't do that step anymore.
24 ga is useful for everything but speaker level currents and main rail feed.
You do have to be careful stripping, as you can pull the entire insulation off a 3" wire if you don't cut all the way around.
Kynar is about as useful for not burning off, but only comes in 30 ga and 26 ga solid core, that I've found. Kynar Is quite a bit cheaper than teflon since is usually surplus. The solid wire is a bit easier to break when you bend it around an eyelet.
The silver plate draws solder nicely, but is not why I buy the stuff. Sound would be exactly the same as copper IMHO.
Factories building point to point figured out each wire as it was built to make sure that the risk of burning insulation was not there. They built things to wirelists, which went exactly in order. Every point had a name. A whole extra step after drawing the schematic diagram. I did that work in designing ground support equipment, but that is a lot of time to engineer a one-off project, I don't do that step anymore.
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Why would you waste time arguing True Believers?
Being a "superior insulator" and "sounding better" are absolutely unrelated items.
To boot, insulation can be easily measured without any argument, just post the Lab results and it´s done.
"Sound Better" arguments, on the contrary, can easily lead to WW3
Teflon doesn't melt or even soften much at "normal" soldering temperatures and cleans up nicely afterward with almost any kind of solvent. Great for those of us who aren't great at soldering small wires. Hard to strip, though.
I like to build RF coax wiring with Teflon insulated connectors, too.
Silver plate also helps the 'wetability' of the wires, and helps protect the copper core of the wiring from corrosion. I think this was a milspec requirement to prevent Teflon under certain conditions from attacking copper.
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Pretty good once I found the best tool. In my case an automotive crimping tool that has sharp jaws for different diameter wire. I didn't inspect vigilantly as I was well within spec of the cable but it seemed ok. Shorter length were a bit more difficult to not slide the entire sheath off.
To clarify, I like working with it because it's easy to solder and looks marginally different to the rest of my wire.
Teflon insulated wire
For mil spec flight and space applications Telflon is used exclusively, mainly because is has very low outgas, survives minus 300 degree to plus 300 degree celsius, does not deteriate over time and it does not burn.
Mechanicle strippers were prohibited because of nicking the strands, the last thing you need in a spcecraft is a conductive strand floating around.
Telflon is used for RF coaxial cables as it has lower loss than other common insulators like polypropolene. Air is the best insulator for coaxial cables but its not practical for anything smaller than three inch diamter.
Teflon will tend to flow and compress so one needs to avoid pressing it with a sharp edge.
I can’t say Ive heard any improvements using Teflon insulated wire for general internal wiring, but I’ve never done a comparison. I have used Teflon insulated silver plated coax cables for line level interconnects, here again I have done any comparisons. I typicall use Mil-Spec RG142 or RG400 coax.
Gerold
For mil spec flight and space applications Telflon is used exclusively, mainly because is has very low outgas, survives minus 300 degree to plus 300 degree celsius, does not deteriate over time and it does not burn.
Mechanicle strippers were prohibited because of nicking the strands, the last thing you need in a spcecraft is a conductive strand floating around.
Telflon is used for RF coaxial cables as it has lower loss than other common insulators like polypropolene. Air is the best insulator for coaxial cables but its not practical for anything smaller than three inch diamter.
Teflon will tend to flow and compress so one needs to avoid pressing it with a sharp edge.
I can’t say Ive heard any improvements using Teflon insulated wire for general internal wiring, but I’ve never done a comparison. I have used Teflon insulated silver plated coax cables for line level interconnects, here again I have done any comparisons. I typicall use Mil-Spec RG142 or RG400 coax.
Gerold
I'm using teflon sleeving for fine enamel wire leads of my transformers. It has a quite high breakdown voltage, so small thicknesses are satisfactory enough. To be honest, I prefer the feel and flexibility of silicon impregnated fiberglass sleeves, but they aren't available in tiny diameters bellow 0.5mm like teflon does.
Sound? Just experiment and hear for yourself.
Sound? Just experiment and hear for yourself.
If you have a surplus stock of it, then sure, why not. But it'll be harder work.
If it is true military grade (such as MIL-W-22759), then the voltage rating is around 600V. There are a lot of 'military spec' wires on auction sites that aren't legit.. but if you can get it from a reputable supplier, then you will know which mil spec it is and of course be able to look up those specs to see if they meet your requirements. Generally for the mains side, you need to comply with the electrical regs for SA (very hard to find without paying SAI $$$). There is some info: here regarding product approvals, but nothing really about DIY.
For using inside an amplifier chassis etc, I'll just say that modern aircraft are wired extensively using PTFE wire. Just imagine the long running times - tens and tens of thousands of hours, in hostile environments, and wires do not break that often. And helicopters that shake the sh... out of everything... Point is, the specification of true mil-spec wire will exceed what would be required for inside an amplifier, particularly with regard to heat tolerance.
As to outside a chassis, I'd say don't for the simple fact that it doesn't tend to sit nicely and doesn't like gross or repetitive movements. The area where the solder meets the strands is susceptible to fatigue when the solder joint is the tethering point. This type of wire is best suited to live inside looms or be bound to a chassis with cable ties. Also, even after years bound, it still tends to coil in a nasty fashion when released.
For ultra low noise requirements, I'd agree that shielded cable surely would be the order of the day anyway.
On audio improvement, I wouldn't want to enter into that particular debate!
As to workability, the sheath of the wire is usually a pig to work with. You need to use the proper strippers (and the correct gauge) or the wire will get nicked, or the sheath will not pull cleanly. Running a blade around carefully before stripping is a good option but it is time consuming because the sheath is usually quite hard to cut.
I use aircraft grade wire professionally, but for most of my home projects I tend to use decent PVC coated wire despite having surplus PTFE available. Sometimes I do prefer the Teflon where there are many wires in a small space (chance of soldering iron touching sheath), but for clear area runs there is no need for the extra work and I'd use single copper core mains wire.
If it is true military grade (such as MIL-W-22759), then the voltage rating is around 600V. There are a lot of 'military spec' wires on auction sites that aren't legit.. but if you can get it from a reputable supplier, then you will know which mil spec it is and of course be able to look up those specs to see if they meet your requirements. Generally for the mains side, you need to comply with the electrical regs for SA (very hard to find without paying SAI $$$). There is some info: here regarding product approvals, but nothing really about DIY.
For using inside an amplifier chassis etc, I'll just say that modern aircraft are wired extensively using PTFE wire. Just imagine the long running times - tens and tens of thousands of hours, in hostile environments, and wires do not break that often. And helicopters that shake the sh... out of everything... Point is, the specification of true mil-spec wire will exceed what would be required for inside an amplifier, particularly with regard to heat tolerance.
As to outside a chassis, I'd say don't for the simple fact that it doesn't tend to sit nicely and doesn't like gross or repetitive movements. The area where the solder meets the strands is susceptible to fatigue when the solder joint is the tethering point. This type of wire is best suited to live inside looms or be bound to a chassis with cable ties. Also, even after years bound, it still tends to coil in a nasty fashion when released.
For ultra low noise requirements, I'd agree that shielded cable surely would be the order of the day anyway.
On audio improvement, I wouldn't want to enter into that particular debate!
As to workability, the sheath of the wire is usually a pig to work with. You need to use the proper strippers (and the correct gauge) or the wire will get nicked, or the sheath will not pull cleanly. Running a blade around carefully before stripping is a good option but it is time consuming because the sheath is usually quite hard to cut.
I use aircraft grade wire professionally, but for most of my home projects I tend to use decent PVC coated wire despite having surplus PTFE available. Sometimes I do prefer the Teflon where there are many wires in a small space (chance of soldering iron touching sheath), but for clear area runs there is no need for the extra work and I'd use single copper core mains wire.
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