First full range build - Fostex ff165wk

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
Hi All,

My first post here! Although I have been searching around the site quite a bit.

Planning to build speakers for my rented room in London~ 11ftx 12ft. I know there are tons of similar posts out there but I created a new one as I plan to post pictures and updates from start to end of the build.

Background:

I have never built a full range setup before so planning to give it a go. Unlike most of you here my knowledge and experience of audio is relatively non-existent. However electronics and DIY is my hobby! I have made DIY speakers before but they were built without much audio knowledge, experience or measurements. The picture shows the setup I have back home which was built purely for the sake of loud bass and music:D!

My setup is quite simple. I finished building a 2-channel LM3886 recently, capable of providing 30W into 8Ω. and thus now am planning to build the speakers for the amp. After reading several threads around here I have settled on the Fostex FF165WK. Also they fit my budget and and have an RMS power of 30W so matches my amp perfectly:). These are available in ebay UK but would prefer other retailers if anyone knows about?

I tend to listen to music with more lows and tighter punch bass. But I have come to acknowledge that full range sound will be completely different so I have an open mind. While I truly respect the type of music most people play in these system, I will probably be listening to mostly metal, rock and some pop music from Youtube :p.

Plan:
For the enclosures (the main reason for the post), I was planning to go with the recommended designs from the fostex datasheet but I think they won't full fill my low end expectations and I don't intend to spend more on a sub. I am primarily looking at MLTLs such as the one designed by Bob Brines M12-F165. If i do go with this, I will indeed buy the plans before proceeding. :D

However I am also looking at something like this https://youtu.be/eqUbYFLLV4I.

I also don't know if I should go with the popular horn designs like the dallas II, or the recommended datasheet enclosure with the fe206en? The dallas would poses a problem to buld with all those angles but the one in the datasheet should be fine to cope with.

My tools are modest; jigsaw, power drill, hand saw, power sander,wood glue, some 12" clamps and rulers.

Any ideas are welcome.

Thanks
Sadat
 

Attachments

  • 03082012602.jpg
    03082012602.jpg
    948.7 KB · Views: 1,418
  • DSC00115.jpg
    DSC00115.jpg
    819.6 KB · Views: 1,356
A short list of observations / comments, in no particular order of significance:

- if you have the floorspace, a full length MLTL such as Bob's or Dave Dlugos' Compact Floorstander will definitely deliver deeper bass extension and impact than the Fostex BR box;

- whether using MDF or Baltic Birch plywood (I'd suggest the latter), you'll want access to something like a decent table or track saw to provide clean cuts for glue joints - do not rely on gap filling properties of Gorilla etc type expanding polyurethanes, or construction adhesives;

- I'd highly recommend chamfering a 45dg bevel on the rear side of driver hole. A router would come in handy for both that, and a more accurate though hole for the driver;

- FF165WK does not require a BLH as complex at the Dallas - it does work very well in the FrugalHorn FHXL, but that one requires more real estate than I think you can currently afford.

- depending on your hearing, you may not need a tweeter with the 165s - I certainly don't find them particularly lacking, but at over 65 the top end of my hearing is long a distant memory
 
Just my experience, so take with a grain of salt, but I do not like the combo of the ff165wk with a chipamp (in my case an audiosector version). I have the drivers in large BIB cabs and still do not find the bass sufficient to balance out the mids. Don't like the highs much either.

In this price range I greatly prefer the Alpair 10.3, and there are plenty of cabs around that will work. There are even flatpacks in the U.K. of the above mentioned FHXL. You may even be able to hear a pair before laying out your pounds.

As mentioned above you may also want to look to standard multiway speakers for your choice of music. :smash:
 
Thanks everyone for your input.

Believe me, I have given the multi-way systems a serious thought, was even was gonna go for the SEAS MIMIR, but then I don't really like the idea of a crossover. I'm not a big fan of them lets say. The way I see it, the amount of money I'm gonna spend on those inductors and caps can be better served on spending it on the driver!

Thus I opted for full range drivers. I am not too bothered about the room size for now as the room is rented so I might move to a bigger room or house in the future but won't be making speakers that often. But definitely not considering an overly large enclosure:p.


chris,

Thanks for most of your suggestions. Is this the compact floor-stander you were referring to: Frugal-phile | Box Library / Fostex. Also when I was referring to the BLH, i meant to use them for the FE206ens. Right now I am thinking of two routes; MLTL with ff165wk or recommended BLH with FE206en. But not sure which will be better for tighter low end bass. I am not too fussed about the high ends so I think I'll live without a tweeter.:)

zman,

Not at all, you're input is appreciated, thanks. I see you're from Dhaka. Me too. :D

giantstairs,

I understand. Well I can't afford tubes or expensive amps so my modest lm3886 will have to do. The Mark Audio drivers does look interesting it's also slightly cheaper than ff165 or fe206 in the UK. I'll look into it. Unfortunately I don't know many audiophile people who own such systems to enable me to have a listen before splashing out the £££.

Btw does anyone have any suggestions or links for buying ff165 apart from ebay?

Sadat,
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
Is this the compact floor-stander you were referring to: Frugal-phile | Box Library / Fostex. Also when I was referring to the BLH, i meant to use them for the FE206ens. Right now I am thinking of two routes; MLTL with ff165wk or recommended BLH with FE206en.

The Compact Floorstander Fonken165 is part of the paid planset for FF165wk.

Fonken165-CFS-inRoom.jpg


The Fostex recommended enclosures are a mixed bag. For the FE206 the FE208 horn is better, but not up to Dallas II, Kirishima, or Vulcan. BTW FF165wk works well in Victor.

dave
 
Hi Dave,

Thanks for you input. I've seen that picture before in one of the threads or maybe on a youtube video. The fonken165 looks nice! Do you mean the fe208 sigma is better that 206en? In that case it should be cause that 208 costs ~2.5 times the 206 here in the UK:(.

As for the Kirishima, Vulcan and Victor, those would be too large for my taste. The Dallas II with the 206en is an option (don't know how i'll cut all those angles) and am also considering the fonken165/or bob's MLTL with ff165.

Sadat,
 
giantstairs,

I understand. Well I can't afford tubes or expensive amps so my modest lm3886 will have to do. The Mark Audio drivers does look interesting it's also slightly cheaper than ff165 or fe206 in the UK. I'll look into it. Unfortunately I don't know many audiophile people who own such systems to enable me to have a listen before splashing out the £££.

Hi Sadat,
I understand and never suggested expensive amps. I imagine even a cheap tube amp will pair better with these drivers and, if you're into diy, a nice Pass F2 or F3 would sound great for not too much money.

What I did mention is that the 10.3 (I made these for a friend and had them for about a month) will sound very good with your chipamp.

As someone who has bought way too many drivers without being able to listen first I understand your predicament so offering my 2 cents.

You could get in touch with member "orangeart", the UK dealer for Mark Audio, he may be able to help you out with demoing, flatpack, etc. I have no affiliation other than a good experience buying drivers.

Here is the website:
Mark Audio drivers and flat pack speaker kits
 
dave,

alright makes perfect sense now. I assume you were referring to this enclosure? But if the dallas II performs more admirably (which considering it's popularity should be true) then I'll stick to that if I choose the 206en's over the 165's.


giantstairs,

Of-course. Thanks for recommending those tube amps. Yes I was looking at KJFAudio yesterday and that is where I saw the prices of the A10.3. I'll try to get in touch with this member and see what I can do.

Meanwhile anyone know retailers for the FF165wk's in the UK? Apart from wilmslow-audio where it's £230/pair+ shipping and in ebay uk its £200/pair with shipping (don't know whether to trust it though). Most of the other retailers that I know don't seem to offer them.
 
Hi Sadat,

Hello from Dhaka! :)

A few points - I've heard the FE206en in a Fostex BLH for the 208E Sigma (big, cabinet has many pieces, needs a lot of plywood) - IMHO not an ideal speaker for metal/rock music.

I've also heard Mark Audio Alpair 10.2 and 10.3 - works well with the usual full-range fare (girl and guitar, jazz, vocal music), also enjoyable with lot of electronic music and pop at moderate listening volumes. Again not ideal for heavier metal genres, but probably better performing than the Fostex. There's a new driver from Mark Audio called the Pluvia 11 and that might be an option worth exploring too.

I've used an LM3886 amp (Tomchr's Modulus-86) with the Alpair's and it was a good match.
 
sadat,

Not to sound discouraging and no offence to the wide-band driver aficionados, in my experience metal music doesn't sound very good on FR speakers, but YMMV. And I've had no experience with the FF165WK driver.

Good luck with your build.

Agreed, I've been doing FR builds recently but multi-way seems more well-suited to this type of music. A FAST can sound quite good with it though by alleviating the FR driver of heavy bass responsibility.
 
Just a suggestion, but this thread might be worth a look:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/88787-tabaq-tl-tang-band.html

I have just completed building these simple tabaq speakers and think they produce fantastic clean bass, using a small full range driver. I have used 3 inch Visaton FR8's in my build but there are plenty of (better) options and 4 inch drivers can be used as well.

Cheers!
 
Just a suggestion, but this thread might be worth a look:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/88787-tabaq-tl-tang-band.html
Thanks for the reference. Looks like a popular design; 170+ page thread! I'll look into it. Though I'm after a ~6 - 8" driver speaker so I'll search in the thread designs for larger drivers.

Agreed, I've been doing FR builds recently but multi-way seems more well-suited to this type of music. A FAST can sound quite good with it though by alleviating the FR driver of heavy bass responsibility.
This site has more acronyms than UK's railway:)! I did look into a full range and sub combo, this was the first idea I had but still the full range route seems more attractive to me. Plus if I really feel the need for bass I'll add extra sub later on.

Sadat, ygpm
Replied. :) Check pm.

Hi Sadat,
Hello from Dhaka! :)

I've also heard Mark Audio Alpair 10.2 and 10.3 - works well with the usual full-range fare (girl and guitar, jazz, vocal music), also enjoyable with lot of electronic music and pop at moderate listening volumes. Again not ideal for heavier metal genres, but probably better performing than the Fostex. There's a new driver from Mark Audio called the Pluvia 11 and that might be an option worth exploring too.

I've used an LM3886 amp (Tomchr's Modulus-86) with the Alpair's and it was a good match.
I'm flying to Dhaka this summer for vacation. Looking forward to go home.
:)

I'm now also considering the MA 10.3 and Pluvia 11. If anyone near the UK is up for selling a used pair, feel free to PM me.

Regarding the build folks,

Previously looking at the pictures of the Frugel-Horn XL, I thought it was huge, like 8ft! Turns out its not the case. Upon seeing the size and design, this looks doable with my basic skills. So I'm thinking of selecting the enclosure first and then the matching driver for it. Main criteria: 6-8" driver size.

Just to reiterate, I'm a very simple listener, mostly using my phone and apple ear-pods to listen music on spotify and I find this sound quite satisfactory, no I find this sound excellent to my needs. The bass seems well defined to me and I usually listen at avg volume, 50% max with flat EQ. But I enjoy building stuff and hence the build. So the goal is to bring this sound though the Lm3886 and this speaker project, which seems like an achievable bar to clear!:D
 
So after doing some digging it does indeed seem that the Alpair 10.3 or Pluvia 11 might be indeed better suitable for me. Hence a huge thanks to all the members for your suggestions and awesome guidance. Still haven't completely scratched the Fostex but it's gonna take the back seat for a while.

I briefly went through the TABAQ forum and CER2906 thank you so much for this thread. The construction seems so simple and would be ideal for me. Definitely going after this now unless there are other designs that I should know about, which are as simple as this and does such a great job! There is actually a larger version of the TABAQ for the MA A10.3. There is even a video on YouTube of it as well: TABAQ A10.3. I know the sound shouldn't be judged from listening through Youtube but it seems great if I may say so:D. Definitely tempted on making this now.

Eager to know your thoughts on this design for the A10.3. Also any ideas where I could get a used pair of these as they don't come cheap!:p

Sadat
 
Lots of excellent designs around for the Alpairs and Pluvias - from Scott Lindgren's Pensils and FHXL, to Bob Brines' M10A10 - which I've heard, to the TABAQ, which I've not.

To repeat what I've said many times, if the whole world of FR / single driver systems is new to you, it's easy for the combination of analysis paralysis and sticker shock to keep you from making that first (mis) step.

It could be well worth the phone-call and perhaps shoe-leather / petrol to contact someone line Stefan at www.kjfaudio.com and see if he can find a system near enough for your travel convenience to audition first. But be careful, once you stumble down that rabbit hole, it can take a while to find your way out. For some of us, over a decade and half later, we still feel the gravitational pull.

yes, I know - mixed metaphors.
 
Contrary to common misconceptions metal at it's finest is as demanding of the loudspeaker system as full symphony orchestral music. Your emphasis is on the bass if I read you correctly sadat. Your experience with fullrange limited. Your listening environment small and almost square. My suggestions are none of the above. A pair of Seas FA22RCZ 8 inch fullrange drivers. These use a very simple correction network designed by Seas & can work well in a sealed cabinet 50 to 60 litres. Then get some bass traps behind your speakers ASAP.
 
Sadat,

Glad to hear you took a look at the Tabaq TL thread, it's quite a read but we'll worth it!

For such a simple design and low cost it was a "no brainer" for my first attempt at building speakers.

I'm a total newbie to all this but I'm still amazed at the all round sound these speakers produce. Bass is certainly not lacking either!

Try the "standard" Tabaq build and see where that leads?

Sorry, shameless Tabaq fanboy rambling over!

Regards

Chris
 
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.