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DrBoar 5th December 2012 07:59 AM

Klinger horn cutout, Cargo cult or science?

This is how the original horn put on short legs and the opening is facing the floor. As you can see there is a cutout on the lefthand side of the front, perhaps to lead the output to the front? Or is a way to increase the effective flare on the last half (17 cm) of the last flare

I have seen newer builds of the horn and even when the horns are seated upright they have that cutout at the mouth of the horn. It might be cargo cult that is doing things without understanding it is pointless. In Primo Levis boob The Periodic Table there is a fun example in paint manufacture of cargo cult. It is horn that has a good reputation so I thought I might have a go at them. To prepare I try to understand them before going from in silico to in "in MDF".

Any ideas or experiences?

whgeiger 5th December 2012 09:14 AM

Kilinger Horn Notes
1 Attachment(s)
1) The principals of design and operation are not new. They were described in a paper [1] by Olson & Hackley in 1936.
2) Suspect the design anticipates a right and left hand version for corner placement. This would explain the need for the cutout to expand mouth area.
3) Expect the vertical mouth versions to unload the driver at a higher frequency

Reference [1]:
Title: Combination Horn and Direct Radiator Loud-Speaker
Authors: Olson, H.F.; Hackley, R.A.
Publication: Proceedings of the Institute of Radio Engineers, Year 1936, Volume: 24 , Issue: 12, Pages: 1557-1566
Digital Object Identifier: 10.1109/JRPROC.1936.228038

Ivo 20th February 2013 01:07 PM

DrBoar, did you ever make an in-room measurement of this horn? I saw the in-mouth measurements on your blog, but am also interested in the in-room response. My hornresp models show a pretty deep dip at 100 Hz for combined response (hornmouth and driver), but Klinger recommends crossing over at 300Hz. I am curious if Klinger/Schmacks solved that dip through the use of softboard/weichfaser and folds like Olson (without reflectors). Both absorb the higher frequencies coming through the horn, thereby influencing the combined response as well. But hornresp cannot model that...

DrBoar 26th February 2013 09:35 PM

No I did not do any in-room measurements, and now I have given the horn away, a guy actually stowed it awy in a VW Polo! Wit the outer shell adn the legs the total lenth was 115 cm I was impressed that you could get it inside a car substantially smaller than a Golf.

With the CBLH I used a reference for my in-room measurements, I simply first measrued a conventional speaker in the corner for the horn and then the acual horn, so the conventional box showed how much of the peaks and dips was caused by the room and not being intrinsic features of the horn.

I will revisit new horns but I have several project in the pipeline before that. I think the Klinger is more HiFi than the LaScala type but I am a sucker for that brutal slam of the latter. I might remeasure the Kuben horn using the Dayton OmniMic, I have som more 12" drivers, I could do distortion measurements and get more details than I got with the XTZ Room Analyzer II, that really is geared at room accoustics as the name imply.

Ivo 2nd March 2013 12:18 PM

I see what you mean about the difference between LaScala and Klinger. In the end, I would choose extended range (Klinger) over ultimate dynamics (LaScala). Or, would try to find a combination of either.

The Klinger is a fairly long horn with a lot of losses due to sharp bends and no reflectors. Then the horn output is combined with the direct output of the driver itself. The LaScala is a lot shorter and does not have to combine output with driver output. Perhaps the best compromise between them would be the Klipsch Jubilee, for which plans are around (you can find them on my blog, which I hardly maintain anymore, Hornloudspeaker Magazine). I have a "someday" feeling about them, but the woodworking and cost (lot of material) scares me off. Also, to let them perform well with my own choice of midrange/treble, would require more skill and measuring/dsp technology than I currently have at my disposal.

I am also fascinated by this horn: Hörner

It's also from the Klingerbook, even right next to the one you and I built. :D Some simulations I did in Hornresp suggest response down to 25-35 Hz (large range, but I maintain a large margin of doubt with simulations). I have heard some reports from DIY-ers in Germany that love it. Deep and dynamic sound.

So many horns, so little time...

pfjellberg 2nd March 2013 03:50 PM

I have listened to the Klinger, many years ago, in a club (it was called a Disco in those days) and in two demo rooms. I've never heard the La Scala but I don't think they should be compared. The Klinger was designed for mono with a full range speaker and standing as in the drawing with the floor acting as an extension to the mouth. As such I believe they would sound amazing compared to other solutions. As the low end of a two or three way system I can only say that it works.
Given my experience of hearing them as part of a PA system in a club I can only say that if You have the space and a need for a budget solution they will deliver.

BTW the "Hörner" is also known as Schmacks and as such they are quite well known in Sweden of all places.

I listen to Altec Lansing 19s at home, buy them if You have the space, they are not expensive now a days.

pfjellberg 2nd March 2013 03:57 PM

Is this thread moderated? My mentioning of me listening to Altec Lansing 19s should only be viewed as a reference to how I rate speakers, recommending them was a mistake in this thread.

DrBoar 3rd March 2013 06:25 PM

Well I am out of corners at my current home so I am thinking along the line of an other horn that has a longer path than LaScala.

I like the folding of this Swedish design. I am a bit suspicious about the very slow flare at all but the very last section and then that very steep final flare, having a more even flare might improve things. I really have to learn modelning in Hornresponse!

Ivo 19th March 2018 04:11 PM

I am doing a lot of analyzing on this horn (the Schmacks/Klinger) at the moment, using the response measurements from your blog, DrBoar. It is not entirely ready for discussion yet, but I will share later on.

In the mean time, I read something in the frugel horn thread, about the curved mouth of the FH3 and the Woden design horns. They feature this curve, because elaborate simulation and analysis by Ron Clarke showed that it improves radiation by the horn mouth.

I can't say wether the designer of the Schmacks/Klinger had this in mind, but the cutout here reminds me of it in some way and it might have a similar effect.

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