Someone will visit me the next couple of weeks, and maibe buy my big horn rig.
I am thinking about what could come next; i would get rid of horns, and build a direct radiator system, and use the Beyma TPL-150 as the core driver of a new system. I am thinking about a lower midrange driver, which would cover the range from 150hz to 1,5khz, and bass below. What would you suggest to be the best driver to mate with the Beyma's ? I think a MTM would be great. AE12TM ? 8" PHL's ? whatelse would you suggest ?
Angelo
I am thinking about what could come next; i would get rid of horns, and build a direct radiator system, and use the Beyma TPL-150 as the core driver of a new system. I am thinking about a lower midrange driver, which would cover the range from 150hz to 1,5khz, and bass below. What would you suggest to be the best driver to mate with the Beyma's ? I think a MTM would be great. AE12TM ? 8" PHL's ? whatelse would you suggest ?
Angelo
No, I have not, as I can get Beyma chassis at a quite good price. But I've heard it in Systems using other drivers, like B&C, BMS and Faital. The B&C was a 8" midrange and was great, but not that I would prefer it to the Beymas.
Maybe my first choice at the moment is the 15P80Nd crossed at 1,1kHz (passive). It sounds great and has amazing dynamics and super clear midrange. I hope that I can try the new 15P80Fe soon, as it looks a bit better than the 15P80Nd on paper.
PHL is also one of the brands I need to try, but their driver cost more than I can afford at the moment, after buying TPLs
Your waveguide looks really great! How big is it?
interesting. Here they use it:
AVforum.no - AVnytt : TangenAVdesign InConcert Miles (DIY-kit - Beyma elementer - 30Hz-25kHz - 103dB - 60KG)
It has 60cm diameter, and will replace Vitavox S2/LeCleac'h - Coral H104/ Aluminium wave guide.
The Beyma sounds already now, without wave guide, much better than S2/H104.
I hope getting a better low end with the wave guide, below 2khz.
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Hi Angelo,
Doug's thread "10" MTM with NeoPro5i Ribbon - Build Thread" is a good reminder of dispersion and lobing limitations in an MTM when the center-to-center spacing is greater than half the crossover frequency wavelength.
"1. Unacceptable vertical response caused by the MTM arrangement of the TD10M drivers.
The drivers ended up being spaced about 18” apart C-C to make room for the NeoPro5i in between. That 18” spacing corresponds to a wavelength of 750Hz which means the first serious null would be around 1500Hz. If you take a look at the vertical response of the two TD10M drivers in their MTM arrangement, you’ll see the severity of the problem. At just 15 degrees off axis, there’s a 20dB dip at 1500Hz which is completely unacceptable. Things only get worse from there, with a plethora of peaks and nulls as you move farther off axis."
If you can accept ~94db/watt SPL efficiency, a TMW with an 8" midbass and 18" woofer crossed at 1,500Hz and 150Hz is one proven topology. The TPL-150H horn is listed at H=80 degree, V=30 degree dispersion and would provide a tight C-to-C physically spacing to the midrange. A custom built 90 x 40 constant directivity horn would be the classic home disperions pattern.
The price on my favorite midrange soared with NdFeB prices, and I have not tested any others that I would recommend. I favor 8" mid/full range with Mms of 9-10 grams and Qts ~0.37.
The germans use MTM with the Beyma :
Hornet by Michael Weides
http://www.roehren-und-hoeren.de/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7702&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
There are a few 10" high efficiency drivers, which do over 100db/wm. So just one could mate well with the Beyma.
Eventually a design , using on top a 10" lower midrange, below TPL-150 at ear level, with wave guide, and on the floor a 15" or 18".........
Not me...
(Have one already, but not tratix. Spanish Beyma tweeter though, from the eighties.)
You find one more musical than the other? (Thanks.)
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If Beyma ribbon sounds anything close to big Heil you may regret getting rid of horns down the road. My friend has one and it sounds very , very nice -ALL the time ! . You may try to borrow TAD TM1201 -100dB carbon driver for your midrange. I think it would match that tweeter perfectly. Maybe a little absent of tone but very exciting and clean speaker.
(or we can trade I'll sent you a pair of Tad's 1201, pair of BC 8PE21 or faital pro M5f12 and Altec 228c with new GPA dia's so you can have some dudes to operate your horns and sell them to discerning music lover and you just sent me your fanes and vitavoxes-simple ;0) As a bonus you'll have fun reading Romy calling me morron and imbecile while being ahead of the game !
. You may try to borrow TAD TM1201 -100dB carbon driver for your midrange. I think it would match that tweeter perfectly. Maybe a little absent of tone but very exciting and clean speaker.(or we can trade I'll sent you a pair of Tad's 1201, pair of BC 8PE21 or faital pro M5f12 and Altec 228c with new GPA dia's so you can have some dudes to operate your horns and sell them to discerning music lover and you just sent me your fanes and vitavoxes-simple ;0) As a bonus you'll have fun reading Romy calling me morron and imbecile while being ahead of the game !
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If Beyma ribbon sounds anything close to big Heil you may regret getting rid of horns down the road. My friend has one and it sounds very , very nice -ALL the time !
(or we can trade I'll sent you a pair of Tad's 1201, pair of BC 8PE21 or faital pro M5f12 and Altec 228c with new GPA dia's so you can have some dudes to operate your horns and sell them to discerning music lover and you just sent me your fanes and vitavoxes-simple ;0) As a bonus you'll have fun reading Romy calling me morron and imbecile while being ahead of the game !
hi Limono
despite never heard the original Heil's, i think the Beyma is a different breed.
Without horn it has 99db/wm, and with waveguide 102db/wm. While the Heil has 92db/wm. BTW. even without WG, i don't miss dynamics, but a little more output below 2khz ( which i think i will get with my WG ).
If i don't sell my horn system, as soon as my WG is finished and on place, i will sell S2/H104. That will be some bucks at my paypal account, and i will have some spare money to try out different things... That will be fun.
What i would love, is to have the frequencies below 1khz also reproduced by a AMT: Raymonds fullrange AMT is a dream.....
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/156466-one-only-full-range-amt.html
He believes his creation is the best there is, and , knowing what the Beyma is capable, i don't doubt a second about that......
BTW. i don't give a s*** about what some people think......
Angelo
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Sure you do.. (though describing the cat as "people" is a bit generous
), after-all this is the same "person" helping to inflate the price of an S2 to stupid levels and ultimately providing you more cash to spend! ..btw, did I mention the PHL 3040? ..Oh yeah, I did.
Thats my design there, two 15P80ND's with the TPL150H. Passive XO is at 900 Hz, 2nd order. The speaker is highly praised in the DIY community in Norway. Personally I found the 15P80ND a little less open sounding that smaller diameter midranges, but adding a dedicated mid would make the speaker a 3-way with two 15" woofers.... Using a Beyma 8G40 would probably make the midrange better.
But anyway, it sounds really good, and it can play insanely loud. One guy that build them measured 135 dB in his listening position....
I was actually thinking about the Beyma 10MI100 as midrange down to 150hz, and below a sub. It has about the same sensitivity as the Tpl150, and a very linear frequency response.
similar to this design , but with the ATM, instead of a CD:
Beyma Woofers, Mids and Compression drivers w/ DDS horns
How low do you plan on running the TPL?I was actually thinking about the Beyma 10MI100 as midrange down to 150hz, and below a sub. It has about the same sensitivity as the Tpl150, and a very linear frequency response.
similar to this design , but with the ATM, instead of a CD:
Beyma Woofers, Mids and Compression drivers w/ DDS horns
You will not get ~100 dB sensitivity out of that, you will need two woofers to get enough sensitivity below the baffle step. The same goes for the midrange as well.
hi Stigerik
i might have missed it at your thread, but, could you point out what advantage you got, replacing the Beyma, with the Bohlender Graebener RD75 Planar Transducer ? ( i mean beside the fact, that it covers down to 150hz ? )
Would the Hygeia RD-1000 with 97db/wm not have been a better choice ?
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The Beyma 12P80Nd looks very interesting on paper :
http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/12P80Nd.pdf
two below the TPL might be something......
i might have missed it at your thread, but, could you point out what advantage you got, replacing the Beyma, with the Bohlender Graebener RD75 Planar Transducer ? ( i mean beside the fact, that it covers down to 150hz ? )
Would the Hygeia RD-1000 with 97db/wm not have been a better choice ?
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The Beyma 12P80Nd looks very interesting on paper :
http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/12P80Nd.pdf
two below the TPL might be something......
Between there I had a Mundorf AMT as well....
The obvious advantage is of course the much wider frequency range, which means no XO in the midrange.
RD-75's are line-sources, which is a great advantage in itself, as is almost eliminated floor and ceiling reflection.
They look like B&G copies, bad ones too. Note that the RD-1000 is 20 dB down at 200 Hz compared to 1000 Hz. Absolutely rubbish if you ask me.
Yes they look very good, and I wanted to try them for a long time. But Beyma hesitated releasing them for production, and I ended up with four 8" Excel instead.....