The function of the cap is the same regardless if it's in a PSU for audio or in a non-audio PSU. If it's good for an audio PSU (and until now that was not in question) how can it be bad for a non-audio PSU...? Also I haven't seen many cases of 63V / 4700uF (let alone bigger ones like 80V / 22.000uF) caps in the signal path of audio circuits...
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Caps can make an audible difference but learn the science if you want to know how and where. I hate all audiophool BS thats out there only to fleece the uneducated out of there hard earned money. And theres more audio BS every year because at %1000 markups its very profitabke. I know Im mostly wasting my time preaching to the zealots but if I can persuede a few people to think twice about these products and spend there money where it counts Im happy. If you cant hear it in a blind test it dosnt matter.
Kemet is a well known capacitor supply company whose source of slit foil is DNM ( according to them ) are you saying they are giving out "audiophool " advertising ?
If so they have a lot to answer for and in that case why haven't they been taken to court publishing on a WWW basis for public sales .
Anyway heres some real info.
Why low ESR matters in capacitor design | doEEEt.com
Note the part on eddy currents ( the reason slit caps were invented). Reducing ESR by 10% will make no difference in sound quality in any audio electronics.
Why low ESR matters in capacitor design | doEEEt.com
Note the part on eddy currents ( the reason slit caps were invented). Reducing ESR by 10% will make no difference in sound quality in any audio electronics.
Passive components labeled "for audio" always raise a red flag. Passive components have well defined, measured parameters, including non ideal, and nonlinear characteristics, most of which have been known for at least a hundred years. Engineers have used these components to take us to the moon, map the universes background radiation, and your brain (MRI), and can receive signals from Voyager billions of miles away, but according to audiophools they dont know how to use them in an audio amp?
Yes Cbdb I knew about ESR a long time ago especially with help from a capacitor design engineer who wrote articles in EW and designed his own test jigs and multi IC extremely low THD test equipment down to well below -100DB which at the time was quite revolutionary .
He actually backed up most of JLH,s subjective comments by actual scientific tests ( available in articles in the 90,s EW ) .
John only got wrong COG ceramic but John made a good point about polypropylene capacitors as he had taken many apart to prove cheap low voltage versions used packaging grade polypropylene instead of quality thicker stuff .
He actually backed up most of JLH,s subjective comments by actual scientific tests ( available in articles in the 90,s EW ) .
John only got wrong COG ceramic but John made a good point about polypropylene capacitors as he had taken many apart to prove cheap low voltage versions used packaging grade polypropylene instead of quality thicker stuff .
If you dig around the internet you can find plenty of technical data/PDFs from BHC Aerobox before they were taken over, relating to all their parts (not just the slit-foils).
Some going into much greater detail on their construction, improvements in performance (eg quoting figures) than other manufacturers. Yes some of it is marketing over performance (i.e. what did they use as a benchmark for comparison).
When it comes to science, I am happy to apply this when needed. I have successfully specified ceramic capacitors (and lowly X7R/X5R) parts in an AUDIO PATH before with ZERO impact on audio performance. Not exactly rocket science, although a lot of people like to make it seem so (but then shouting loudly these days seems to win over being right about something).
Tried looking for old BHC data sheets but just could not find the ALC10S ones.
Those it’s strange that they don’t publish the ESR of this series, I wouldn’t write them off yet. I believe these are using the same technology as the SuperTech slit-foil caps which many have had very good experience with.
Those it’s strange that they don’t publish the ESR of this series, I wouldn’t write them off yet. I believe these are using the same technology as the SuperTech slit-foil caps which many have had very good experience with.
Kemet has stated that as far as SLIT FOIL capacitors are concerned they have worked in the design of their capacitors IN CONJUNCTION with DNM capacitor designers so it stands to reason that collaboration involved what Kemet can state in business and what is left to---DNM .
I have come across this before in industrial business legal situations.
Check out DNM .
I have come across this before in industrial business legal situations.
Check out DNM .
You are right. Just went to DNM website and they have data sheet for the 2 pin slit foil 10,000 80v. Interestingly the data sheet bears SuperTech header http://www.dnm.co.uk/datasheets/SNF103M1K3563B-DATA.png
Specs looks good, and upon closer look the Kemet’s spec is not as good ESR Kemet=50mOhm and SuperTech 27mOhm, leakage current Kemet = 4.8mA and SuperTech= 4.8mA
While both have 35mm diameter, the Kemet one is 80mm tall and SuperTech only 63mm. I used to think that bigger size caps generally have better specs, this seems not the case.
Specs looks good, and upon closer look the Kemet’s spec is not as good ESR Kemet=50mOhm and SuperTech 27mOhm, leakage current Kemet = 4.8mA and SuperTech= 4.8mA
While both have 35mm diameter, the Kemet one is 80mm tall and SuperTech only 63mm. I used to think that bigger size caps generally have better specs, this seems not the case.
Hi James,
Don't we always look for low ESR capacitors for PSU smoothing? And of course we balance between the cost and quality...........
The reason I ask the very first question was that while the datasheet says a lot of good things about the ALC10S used in audio, it did not give direct information on the numbers like others do, and so far I have not come across anyone who has used them and could share their experience.
I would probably now look somewhere else after comparing them to the SuperTech ones, though the SuperTech are not commonly used the feedback so far have all been possitive.
Don't we always look for low ESR capacitors for PSU smoothing? And of course we balance between the cost and quality...........
The reason I ask the very first question was that while the datasheet says a lot of good things about the ALC10S used in audio, it did not give direct information on the numbers like others do, and so far I have not come across anyone who has used them and could share their experience.
I would probably now look somewhere else after comparing them to the SuperTech ones, though the SuperTech are not commonly used the feedback so far have all been possitive.
Actually, the specs tell you how well the component is made, what it's limits are, how it used and all that but doesn't tell you much about what they'll sound like in power supplies, unfortunately.
Capacitor specifications has always been one big mess and it's a minefield for the unwary - different companies test caps quite differently, and (gasp!) some even fudge the results too! - suggest you be wary/hesitant about selecting caps via the published specs.
I have a couple of the original BHC ALC10s caps - tall slender with snap fit pins - great midrange sound, clear treble and a bit thin in the bass on their own like in a C-R-C filter, for example - I used them with a Siemens/Epcos cap to 'balance' the sound (bridge -> Sikorel -> ALC -> amp) - (that was for an F5 amp and I ended up using Siemens -> Elna ->) - the F6 amp is a better amp in my system.
If you're looking towards upgrading the power supply caps perhaps you would look at the 4 pole caps from Denis Moorecroft - these are also made by Supertech - good caps indeed. Mundorf also list some 4 poles, not cheap.
Capacitor specifications has always been one big mess and it's a minefield for the unwary - different companies test caps quite differently, and (gasp!) some even fudge the results too! - suggest you be wary/hesitant about selecting caps via the published specs.
I have a couple of the original BHC ALC10s caps - tall slender with snap fit pins - great midrange sound, clear treble and a bit thin in the bass on their own like in a C-R-C filter, for example - I used them with a Siemens/Epcos cap to 'balance' the sound (bridge -> Sikorel -> ALC -> amp) - (that was for an F5 amp and I ended up using Siemens -> Elna ->) - the F6 amp is a better amp in my system.
If you're looking towards upgrading the power supply caps perhaps you would look at the 4 pole caps from Denis Moorecroft - these are also made by Supertech - good caps indeed. Mundorf also list some 4 poles, not cheap.
"tall slender with snap fit pins ... a bit thin in the bass" I bet that short + thick cans have plenty bass but less treble.
Sorry could not resist. Did you know that in sighted tests, black anodized amps sound dark and bright front panel amps sound bright? Swapping the front panels of course reverses this…
Sorry could not resist. Did you know that in sighted tests, black anodized amps sound dark and bright front panel amps sound bright? Swapping the front panels of course reverses this…
A proponent of double blind tests Holmer ?
But hold on here is the "prestige " --Audiophile Review saying why it cant work for audio which actually backs up my opinion that whats "music " to one persons ears is not music to another .
Its called subjectism or is it the D.Self school of scientific audiology -zero subjectism .
Now if only I was a robot .
Why "Double Blind" Testing Can't Work For Audio - Audiophile Review
But hold on here is the "prestige " --Audiophile Review saying why it cant work for audio which actually backs up my opinion that whats "music " to one persons ears is not music to another .
Its called subjectism or is it the D.Self school of scientific audiology -zero subjectism .
Now if only I was a robot .
Why "Double Blind" Testing Can't Work For Audio - Audiophile Review