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PCB: low voltage On-Off switch drives AC mains relay \ includes soft start .. H9KPXG
PCB: low voltage On-Off switch drives AC mains relay \ includes soft start .. H9KPXG
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Old 4th June 2020, 12:13 AM   #21
Mark Johnson is offline Mark Johnson  United States
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PCB: low voltage On-Off switch drives AC mains relay \ includes soft start .. H9KPXG
Patrick: you're absolutely right.

With two ground pours, one on top and the other on bottom, there's a lot of copper to suck away heat when you're soldering a pin that's electrically connected to ground. For example, check out these pins on the CD4013 IC (in a 14 pin Dual Inline Package) that are all tied to ground because there's a not-used flipflop: "U1A" on the schematic. That IC's pins certainly do have plenty heap big copper to bottom ground (green) and plenty more heap big copper to top ground (white).

Fortunately, DIY is not high volume totally automated production. When DIYers notice that solder isn't melting normally, they increase the time or the temperature or both. As you did yourself. This means we reap the benefits of mucho copper plane-of-the-ground without giant compromises for automated wave-soldering. Repeat after me: ahhhhh.

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Old 4th June 2020, 12:16 AM   #22
pfarrell is offline pfarrell  United States
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PCB: low voltage On-Off switch drives AC mains relay \ includes soft start .. H9KPXG
Haha... good to know. Confirmation of suspicion from someone with vastly more experience... I appreciate that.

Also, the DIY store's Firemettal was a huge bonus... smallish diameter meant that I could see exactly when I was getting the sucking action, hence enough heat.
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Old 4th June 2020, 01:01 AM   #23
spiggs is offline spiggs  United States
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Originally Posted by pfarrell View Post
Found an error in my cart!!—fixed here:
Mouser Electronics
...

What was the error? I ordered the previously posted cart.
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Old 4th June 2020, 02:49 AM   #24
pfarrell is offline pfarrell  United States
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PCB: low voltage On-Off switch drives AC mains relay \ includes soft start .. H9KPXG
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Originally Posted by spiggs View Post
What was the error? I ordered the previously posted cart.
C10, C11, C12 should be .1u!
Somehow in the previous iteration I had 1.5u. Perhaps Mark will say these are fine?

(This is what happens when you actually use the schematic to stuff parts! Discoveries.)

You will also find yourself with some extra 1000u caps....(Use the 25V)

Apologies.
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Old 4th June 2020, 03:44 AM   #25
pfarrell is offline pfarrell  United States
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PCB: low voltage On-Off switch drives AC mains relay \ includes soft start .. H9KPXG
Yea!

Works as expected... Have to do this again tomorrow for the other mono block.
Seems to need a couple of power on/off cycles on the front button to "time" itself for lack of a better term? Maybe it's me. I have a master switch on the IEC, now left on (Actually I left it on before too—latching switch is rated at 2A, hmmm don't think that's ideal).

Working perfectly with a satisfying little "click" as the relay trips. Pro!
(Haven't tried the LED connect yet—I like white and not bright, so I end up using around 35K, I'll add the difference in series to Mark's 4.7K)

Never had any thumps on the M2X (soft little quick hushy rush sound on power off), soft start is just a bonus in this case—AJ has an off thump... It's getting this next.

HUGE thanks Mark!! (Again.)

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Old 4th June 2020, 05:11 AM   #26
spiggs is offline spiggs  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pfarrell View Post
C10, C11, C12 should be .1u!
Somehow in the previous iteration I had 1.5u. Perhaps Mark will say these are fine?

(This is what happens when you actually use the schematic to stuff parts! Discoveries.)

You will also find yourself with some extra 1000u caps....(Use the 25V)

Apologies.

Looking at the schematic I think these caps are in parallel after the diode rectifier for the 5v dc supply. I am not smart enough to know if the value is critical for the functionality of the soft start so I hope Mark chimes in. Aren't these there to smooth out the ripple from the rectifier a bit? Maybe if I stick a 1.5uF cap in C10 and leave C11 and C12 empty it will be fine except for the 5v line taking a bit more time to charge down?


Edit: I also have a spare .47uF 250v rated cap. Perhaps I could just use this in C10 with C11 and C12 unpopulated and be good.

Last edited by spiggs; 4th June 2020 at 05:24 AM. Reason: Another cap option
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Old 4th June 2020, 05:30 AM   #27
BrianGasberg is offline BrianGasberg  Denmark
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PCB: low voltage On-Off switch drives AC mains relay \ includes soft start .. H9KPXG
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiggs View Post
Looking at the schematic I think these caps are in parallel after the diode rectifier for the 5v dc supply. I am not smart enough to know if the value is critical for the functionality of the soft start so I hope Mark chimes in. Aren't these there to smooth out the ripple from the rectifier a bit? Maybe if I stick a 1.5uF cap in C10 and leave C11 and C12 empty it will be fine except for the 5v line taking a bit more time to charge down?


Edit: I also have a spare .47uF 250v rated cap. Perhaps I could just use this in C10 with C11 and C12 unpopulated and be good.

They are decoupling capacitors for the digital logic.

They should not be left out and it is best to keep them 100 nF or less.
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Last edited by BrianGasberg; 4th June 2020 at 05:32 AM.
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Old 4th June 2020, 06:14 AM   #28
spiggs is offline spiggs  United States
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Originally Posted by BrianGasberg View Post
They are decoupling capacitors for the digital logic.

They should not be left out and it is best to keep them 100 nF or less.

Thanks. For my education where on the schematic can I see that? I see the vss and vdd points and thought those would be the takeoff points for the logic circuits and these points are before and after all 3 caps. I don't understand how the 3 100 nF caps are different than 1 300nF cap?
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Old 4th June 2020, 06:14 AM   #29
mbrennwa is offline mbrennwa  Switzerland
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PCB: low voltage On-Off switch drives AC mains relay \ includes soft start .. H9KPXG
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfarrell View Post
AJ has an off thump... It's getting this next.
Yup, the Aleph J is known for its off thump. That's not a PSU thing, but has to do how the Aleph circuit works. A slow turn on will not help with this. I added DC protection boards to my Aleph, and the hump is gone.

All amps should have DC protection for the speakers (except maybe tube amps with output transformers maybe). My F5 from the FirstWatt factory (Nelson Pass' kitchen table?) somehow decided to output DC for a while. The smell from the burnt woofer was horrible, and it was not easy to calm down SHMBO (and I must say she was right to be worried).

I like the XRK SSR DC protection boards. They are very small, are easy to work with and work very well.
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Old 4th June 2020, 06:58 AM   #30
BrianGasberg is offline BrianGasberg  Denmark
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PCB: low voltage On-Off switch drives AC mains relay \ includes soft start .. H9KPXG
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiggs View Post
Thanks. For my education where on the schematic can I see that? I see the vss and vdd points and thought those would be the takeoff points for the logic circuits and these points are before and after all 3 caps. I don't understand how the 3 100 nF caps are different than 1 300nF cap?

It is common practice, when drawing schematics, to put the decoupling capacitors needed, at one position on the schematic. If you look at the component placement (attached), you can see that they are physically located close to the digital ICs (U1, U3 and U5).
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