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D-Noizator: a magic active noise canceller to retrofit & upgrade any 317-based V.Reg.
D-Noizator: a magic active noise canceller to retrofit & upgrade any 317-based V.Reg.
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Old 21st November 2019, 07:14 AM   #281
jameshillj is offline jameshillj  Australia
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You could also use a resistor in series with a pot, plus, add another resistor in // with that pot to get some ability to trim the voltage if it's necessary
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Old 21st November 2019, 01:02 PM   #282
carlmart is offline carlmart  Brazil
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Any LTSpice model for LM337?

Can't find any with Google.
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Old 21st November 2019, 01:30 PM   #283
carlmart is offline carlmart  Brazil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jameshillj View Post
You could also use a resistor in series with a pot, plus, add another resistor in // with that pot to get some ability to trim the voltage if it's necessary
I don't know how much current goes through that pot. The simulation is not good for seeing current on pots, at least on mine.

Another thing: apparently single turn ceramic pots are more reliable than multi-turn ones, so wouldn't a simulation allow having a ballpark on where the adjustable resistance value might be, then add a resistor in series with a 1-turn ceramic trimpot to be safe?
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Old 21st November 2019, 05:39 PM   #284
Elvee is offline Elvee  Belgium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadface View Post
Back to fixed resistors it is then.
By my maths the R3/R4 of 240R gives 5.2mA. For +/- 15V with 5.2mA gives R5/R6 of 2.64k.
Req= product over the sum; using a 5k and a 5.62k resistor gives 2636.5ohm, which should be close enough.

Here is the new layout with the trimpot replaced with dual fixed resistors again.
Attachment 796455Attachment 796456
Does anybody see any layout mistakes or is this likely to work as intended?
Fixed resistors are always preferable for critical applications.
The technique I use (and the industry uses) is to use a main resistor, slightly larger than the expected value, and in parallel a larger one, connected with machine turned receptacles.
This technique has the advantage that only the main resistor needs to be ultra-stable, and generally values in the E12 or E24 series give a sufficient granularity.
Once you have selected the definitive adjustment resistor, it can be soldered to the receptacles for a better durability
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Last edited by Elvee; 21st November 2019 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 21st November 2019, 05:43 PM   #285
Elvee is offline Elvee  Belgium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlmart View Post
Any LTSpice model for LM337?

Can't find any with Google.
Here is a crude and simplified one (current limited to ~500mA, so probably a M type):

Code:
*
*LM337 negative voltage regulator
*Connections   Input Adj. Output
.subckt LM337   8       1      19
.MODEL QN NPN (BF=50 TF=1N CJC=1P)
.MODEL QPOUT PNP (BF=50 TF=1N RE=.2 CJC=1P)
.MODEL QP PNP CJC=1P TF=2N
.MODEL DN D
.MODEL D2 D BV=12 IBV=100U
R10 25 6 1K
Q3 8 17 16 QPOUT
Q4 8 25 17 QP
R18 19 17 250
R19 19 16 .3
G1 8 6 1 18 .1
C7 6 2 .04U
R24 2 8 100
I_ADJ 0 1 65U
R26 8 25 200K
Q5 25 4 19 QP
R27 16 4 200
R28 7 4 7K
D1 8 7 D2
D2 8 6 DN
V1 18 19 1.25
.ENDS
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Old 23rd November 2019, 11:15 AM   #286
carlmart is offline carlmart  Brazil
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To start with, and as it was missing, I am uploading the original D-noisator proposal, only changing the original chip from 317 to LT1085, which is the model included in the LTSpice library.

Next I added the negative regulator, just changing the chip to LM337 and the transistor. All polarized parts were adjusted.

Regulation seems to happen alright, with different output values as it should be, but the resulting curves from positive and negative outputs are exactly the same, which of course shouldn't be so.

So something else has to be changed, and I ask to please tell me what. This should contribute to my further learning (and perhaps other's) on how to setup power supply simulations.
Attached Files
File Type: asc D_noisator_LT1085.asc (2.7 KB, 7 views)
File Type: asc Dnoisator_Dual.asc (8.5 KB, 5 views)
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Old 23rd November 2019, 06:24 PM   #287
Elvee is offline Elvee  Belgium
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You have completely messed up the original circuit.
Here it is again:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/atta...g-nonoiser-asc

The only thing you are allowed to change is R5 (and maybe R3 if you want to use a close but more convenient value).

You must not add resistors here and there, or modify the values of existing resistors.
For the negative part, just build the mirror image.

To test the output impedance, switch I1 on (AC1) and switch off the rest:

D-Noizator: a magic active noise canceller to retrofit & upgrade any 317-based V.Reg.-nonoisz-png

To test the PSRR, switch V1 on and switch off all the rest:

D-Noizator: a magic active noise canceller to retrofit & upgrade any 317-based V.Reg.-nonoispsr-png

To test the attenuation of the noise from the 317, switch on V2 (its noise is not natively modeled in the model):

D-Noizator: a magic active noise canceller to retrofit & upgrade any 317-based V.Reg.-nonoisnr-png
Attached Images
File Type: png NONOISZ.png (98.3 KB, 156 views)
File Type: png NONOISPSR.png (75.6 KB, 154 views)
File Type: png NONOISNR.png (74.5 KB, 154 views)
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Old 23rd November 2019, 06:35 PM   #288
carlmart is offline carlmart  Brazil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvee View Post
You have completely messed up the original circuit.
Here it is again
But I didn't upload the D_nonoiser. I uploaded the D_noizator, both in single and dual versions.

You are showing the D_nonoiser simulations. I didn't mess up anything.
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Old 23rd November 2019, 06:46 PM   #289
carlmart is offline carlmart  Brazil
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On my simulations with the dual NoNoiser, I followed your instructions rigorously. But I didn't upload them yet.

The only thing I did on the NoNoiser simulations was change the R5 value (and its counterpart on the negative regulator), to get as close to 30v as possible at the output, and eliminated the R8 trimpot, also following your instructions.

Are we OK?
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Old 23rd November 2019, 08:38 PM   #290
Elvee is offline Elvee  Belgium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlmart View Post
But I didn't upload the D_nonoiser. I uploaded the D_noizator, both in single and dual versions.

You are showing the D_nonoiser simulations. I didn't mess up anything.
It's a mixed bag: this file of yours is actually a denoizator:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/atta...tor_lt1085-asc
But that one (also yours) shows a dual nonoiser with issues:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/atta...sator_dual-asc

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlmart View Post
On my simulations with the dual NoNoiser, I followed your instructions rigorously. But I didn't upload them yet.

The only thing I did on the NoNoiser simulations was change the R5 value (and its counterpart on the negative regulator), to get as close to 30v as possible at the output, and eliminated the R8 trimpot, also following your instructions.

Are we OK?
Not quite yet: we need to align on what is a modified/unmodified denoiser/nonoiser.

To make things easier, here are the positive versions of both, for a 30V output:

Edit: completely unrelated, but 40V input for a 317 makes me uncomfortable.
I would use a 317HV, to be completely safe with the input voltage
Attached Files
File Type: asc CarlN30.asc (3.9 KB, 4 views)
File Type: asc CarlD30.asc (2.7 KB, 4 views)
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Last edited by Elvee; 23rd November 2019 at 08:42 PM.
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