Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

D-Noizator: a magic active noise canceller to retrofit & upgrade any 317-based V.Reg.
D-Noizator: a magic active noise canceller to retrofit & upgrade any 317-based V.Reg.
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd December 2018, 08:48 PM   #11
Elvee is offline Elvee  Belgium
diyAudio Member
 
Elvee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
Summary: low noise voltage regulator achieved using twelve electronic components, one of which is an integrated circuit.
This is just an add-on, but I would love to see a superreg in its own right using <12 components, of which none is an IC.
The current season is certainly the right time for such a development....

Is someone up to the task?

v

v

v

v

__________________
. .Circlophone your life !!!! . . ♫♪ My little cheap Circlophoneİ ♫♪
Electrify your daily life!!! ....⚡⚡ ELEKTRIA ⚡⚡
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2018, 12:18 AM   #12
Mark Johnson is offline Mark Johnson  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Mark Johnson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Silicon Valley
D-Noizator: a magic active noise canceller to retrofit &amp; upgrade any 317-based V.Reg.
I would love to see a low noise voltage regulator using twelve or fewer electronic components, and I don't care how many or how few of them are ICs. If one IC is allowed, seven are also allowed.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2018, 09:13 AM   #13
Zung is offline Zung  Switzerland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Geneva
If low frequency steady state power supply rejection is your primary concern, you can cascade regulators. This is one of the options I considered (and rejected) for the heaters of the preamp I'm currently working on: a cap multiplier as a pre-filter for the regulator. Sim yields 1.3uVpp@100Hz, but it doesn't account for the random noise of the regulator itself.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Heater Reg s-l1600 05.jpg (412.7 KB, 866 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2018, 12:37 PM   #14
Mark Johnson is offline Mark Johnson  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Mark Johnson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Silicon Valley
D-Noizator: a magic active noise canceller to retrofit &amp; upgrade any 317-based V.Reg.
Why no Zener diode at the base of Q1? It will increase mains ripple rejection ("PSRR at low frequencies") by many decibels.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2018, 01:02 PM   #15
stormsonic is offline stormsonic  Slovenia
diyAudio Member
 
stormsonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
@Mark Johnson
Are you familiar with Maxim app notes 3656 and 3657 ?
__________________
"There is no better sonic compressor than a healthy amount of global negative feedback!"
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2018, 02:06 PM   #16
Zung is offline Zung  Switzerland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Geneva
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
Why no Zener diode at the base of Q1? It will increase mains ripple rejection ("PSRR at low frequencies") by many decibels.
For no particular reason, it's just a proof of concept. But you got me curious, so here it goes: no change, even after I force double precision.

The explanation: the 1000uF cap is worth about 1.6 ohms at 100Hz, whereas the Zener typically is 7-15 ohms, so it's not very effective in this case.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Heater Reg s-l1600 05b.jpg (370.7 KB, 826 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2018, 02:28 PM   #17
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
diyAudio Moderator
 
gpapag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Athens-Greece
D-Noizator: a magic active noise canceller to retrofit &amp; upgrade any 317-based V.Reg.
Thanks Elvee.
The "Finesse" circuit works OK (and it can be adjusted)

Performance measurements are here (page 2, 3)
https://www.edn.com/electronics-blog...or-noise-floor

And a strong enough noise source (for testing)
https://www.edn.com/design/analog/44...-1Hz-to-100kHz

George
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Finesse.jpg (403.3 KB, 829 views)
__________________
["Second Law is a bitch." - SY]
["I insist on respecting the means of the average person working in their garage/basement." -Scott Wurcer]
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2018, 05:11 PM   #18
Mark Johnson is offline Mark Johnson  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Mark Johnson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Silicon Valley
D-Noizator: a magic active noise canceller to retrofit &amp; upgrade any 317-based V.Reg.
Yes Maxim application note 3657 looks like it contains some good ideas. Pair it with a 36V supply, RRIO opamp like LT1498 and you can use the Walt Jung trick of connecting the opamp's power supply input pin, to the final regulator's output. With a RRIO opamp you don't need Walt's level shifter. Be sure to filter the holy heck out of the reference voltage (Maxim R1 and C1), I've used 3 terminal "feedthru" capacitors for this purpose. Such as YFF31AH2A105MT0Y0N.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2018, 05:36 PM   #19
gerhard is offline gerhard  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
gerhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Wendel / Saar, SouthWest Germany
OMG. A LT3042 with an external transistor to carry the dissipation is
> 40 dB better than any LM317, right from the start.
Circuit is in the data sheet.

There is no point to mess with the LM317's loop gain.

Oh, yes, it's tested:
< Lt3042_DH44 | Low noise regulator consisting of LT3042 and D… | Flickr >
< spectrum_lt3042_DH44 | Noise spectrum of the LT3042+ D44VH10… | Flickr >

And Wenzel's finesse thing cannot be tuned, it NEEDS to be tuned
for optimum results.

cheers & happy winter solstice

Gerhard
__________________
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" "We don't demand solid facts! What we demand is a total absence of solid facts. I demand that I may or may not be Vroomfondel!"
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th December 2018, 02:08 AM   #20
jackinnj is offline jackinnj  United States
diyAudio Member
 
jackinnj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Llanddewi Brefi, NJ
D-Noizator: a magic active noise canceller to retrofit &amp; upgrade any 317-based V.Reg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerhard View Post
cheers & happy winter solstice

Gerhard
The days are getting longer.

The easy to characterize parameters for a super-reg:
1) PSRR
2) Noise
3) Z out

The (somewhat) harder to characterize parameter:
4) THD

The error amplifier can't be damped as it will impinge back on the rails part of the problem it just saw. Yet, the error amplifier has to be stable. * This is what one of the respondents to the Linear Audio article commented, and the bit of analysis I did, correlating FFT with the perceived results, seemed to bear it out. Unfortunately, or fortunately, Jan has better things to do with his time and there doesn't seem to be an interest in further research.

I know a bunch of you guys do this for a living, for me it's an avocation.

* -- as I've mentioned before, I could get one of the Jung regulators to play WABC-770kc a.m., the 50kW broadcast blowtorch of New York City, when used with an AD797. No such luck with the AD825AR.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


D-Noizator: a magic active noise canceller to retrofit &amp; upgrade any 317-based V.Reg.Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PSU upgrade for DAC Magic Plus E30NA Digital Line Level 8 1st October 2014 12:00 PM
Higher-harmonic distortion canceller jkeny Solid State 0 29th January 2009 11:39 PM
LM3886 based Amp -Upgrade advice please. mikesnowdon Chip Amps 3 26th October 2008 12:53 PM
Active crossover - Voodoo magic? ShinOBIWAN Multi-Way 5 24th February 2005 02:34 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:35 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki