Looking for a Recommendation on a 12v Battery that is Simple to Recharge

spaceman5 · 2018-10-18 9:57 pm

Hi

I will be experimenting with some Amplifier modules that require 12v DC. I would like to use a battery instead of a wall AC Adapter,
and looking for a recommendation on one, that is also simple to recharge. By "simple to recharge" I mean in terms of the circuit needed for the charging part..

Can anyone recommend something nice?

Thank you

rayma · 2018-10-18 10:58 pm

spaceman5 said:
I will be experimenting with some Amplifier modules that require 12v DC. I would like to use a battery instead of a wall AC Adapter,

Is this a car amplifier, and how much current does it need?

lineup · 2018-10-18 11:47 pm

A small 12 Volt lead battery is recomended. Such batteries is for motorbikes and similar. Chargers are not expensive for this type of batteries Chargers that is normally used to charge car battery

spaceman5 · 2018-10-19 6:19 am

rayma said:
Is this a car amplifier, and how much current does it need?

It's not defined as a car amplifier, it's those simple Class AB amplifier modules that you can buy in ebay, such as TDA7297, or TDA7377. What's special about these 2, is that unlike many other Class AB Amplifiers which require a Dual Rail power supply, here it's simply 12v, in the regular configuration.. (12v, Gnd)

lineup said:
A small 12 Volt lead battery is recomended. Such batteries is for motorbikes and similar.

Thank you lineup.

I am curious, why Lead batteries are recommended? (are there 12v batteries that are Ni-MH, Li-Ion, and other materials, like we use in smaller voltages?)

DF96 · 2018-10-19 9:59 am

Most modern battery technology needs a complicated circuit to charge and keep the battery safe. You asked for something simple, so you have to use an older battery technology. NiCd were fairly easy to handle, but they are now banned in many countries.

spaceman5 · 2018-10-19 4:06 pm

DF96 said:
Most modern battery technology needs a complicated circuit to charge and keep the battery safe. You asked for something simple, so you have to use an older battery technology.

Oh, so Lead is due to simplicity - great.

DF96 said:
NiCd were fairly easy to handle, but they are now banned in many countries.

You did not mention Ni-MH, so this means Ni-MH is (relatively) complicated too, in terms of charging?

Good E Nuff · 2018-10-19 4:21 pm

This looks like it might be useful:

Dayton Audio LBB-3 3 x 18650 Lithium Battery Charger Board / Module 12V with Charge Protection

spaceman5 · 2018-10-19 5:16 pm

Thank you Good E Nuff,
but this looks like a Step-Up converter. 18650 batteries are 3.7v, 3 of them will be 11.1 (or less, when not fully charged), so it's mostlikely that this module has a Switching Mode Step-Up converter. A 12v battery on the other hand (real 12v, not step-up), has the advantage over a step-up, which is the fact that it will give a perfect DC..

scott wurcer · 2018-10-19 5:27 pm

spaceman5 said:
Oh, so Lead is due to simplicity - great.
You did not mention Ni-MH, so this means Ni-MH is (relatively) complicated too, in terms of charging?

You could also try 12V power tool packs. Two batteries and the correct charger are often sold together at a decent price. This gives continuous use. They also have a very large peak current capability.

DF96 · 2018-10-19 6:27 pm

NiMH is not too bad, but not quite as simple as NiCd or lead-acid. I seem to recall that the problem with NiMH is that the voltage does not peak when fully charged but may even dip slightly. Some chargers look for this dip, while others look for a rise in temperature.

Mooly · 2018-10-19 6:55 pm

I'd go with VRLA types as well (lead acid gel batteries) but please do include a suitable fuse in the positive lead because the short circuit current delivery is huge (100A and above).

I've just today replaced a small 12v 2.1Ah Yuasa battery in an alarm panel. I fitted it originally in 2003 and it still powered the panel OK in the absence of mains although when loaded even to 0.5A current draw the terminal voltage heads south to around 10 volts. I've a 6Ah one I use for various electronics stuff (and running a laptop

) and that must ten years old now but still retains its capacity. They are surprisingly cheap as well, even for the top name brand.

spaceman5 · 2018-10-19 8:51 pm

DF96 said:
NiMH is not too bad, but not quite as simple as NiCd or lead-acid.

I see, in that case Lead Acid is the chosen type..

scott wurcer said:
You could also try 12V power tool packs. Two batteries and the correct charger are often sold together at a decent price. This gives continuous use. They also have a very large peak current capability.

You're talking about the batteries that come with Drills/Electric Screwdrivers and such tools? What a fantastic idea.

I didn't know their battery is Lead Acid.. (are they always Lead Acid?) It's a great way to buy both the battery and the charger..

Mooly said:
I'd go with VRLA types as well (lead acid gel batteries)

What is the difference etween VRLA and Lead Acid Gel?

Mooly said:
but please do include a suitable fuse in the positive lead because the short circuit current delivery is huge (100A and above).

Oh..
Thanks for the tip.. I will include a fuse.

Mooly said:
I've just today replaced a small 12v 2.1Ah Yuasa battery in an alarm panel. I fitted it originally in 2003 and it still powered the panel OK in the absence of mains although when loaded even to 0.5A current draw the terminal voltage heads south to around 10 volts. I've a 6Ah one I use for various electronics stuff (and running a laptop ) and that must ten years old now but still retains its capacity. They are surprisingly cheap as well, even for the top name brand.

Great.. Advantages of Lead Acid, What we would not get from Ni-MH or Li-Ion.. Nice to hear this..

rayma · 2018-10-19 8:59 pm

spaceman5 said:
You're talking about the batteries that come with Drills/Electric Screwdrivers
and such tools? I didn't know their battery is Lead Acid.

They aren't.

scott wurcer · 2018-10-19 9:13 pm

rayma said:
They aren't.

But they work and come packaged as a complete system, an example of reuse of technology that has the benefit of another application that has a large economy of scale.

DPH · 2018-10-19 9:21 pm

Almost all of them are Li-Ion; maybe a few NiMH? In any case, it's a good way to get a battery/charger system. (I'm stealing this idea, Scott)

spaceman5 · 2018-10-19 9:31 pm

Oh they are Li-Ion..
So this means they have some step-up circuit built-in, for getting to 12v?

DPH · 2018-10-19 9:38 pm

Not necessarily, they vary (depending on chemistry) on between 3.6-4.1v/cell so 3 cells could be between 10.8 and 12.3 V. There's also 18V tools if I'm remembering correctly.

scott wurcer · 2018-10-19 10:03 pm

The 12V power tool batteries are nothing but paralleled cells no step up.

DPH · 2018-10-19 10:54 pm

Sorry, I meant single battery cells, I don't know of any battery chemistry that's 12v by itself. I'm not sure there's an electrochemical reaction that goes that high on the Nernst equation. Eg each li-ion is between 3.6 and 4.2, so you put 3 cells in series for a 12v battery. Pretty sure lead-sulfuric cell is about 2.2 V. So a standard 12 v lead-acid battery is 6 cells in series.

scott wurcer · 2018-10-19 11:48 pm

DPH said:
Pretty sure lead-sulfuric cell is about 2.2 V. So a standard 12 v lead-acid battery is 6 cells in series.

Sorry I should have said series parallel. The power tools would not work with step up switchers.

Looking for a Recommendation on a 12v Battery that is Simple to Recharge

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