Ian's LinearPi... my view
Sorry all for being absent for so long. Dealing with staying safe from Covid-19, especially in a state in the US that currently ranks as the 10th-worse outbreak IN THE WORLD (of course other US States are FAR ahead of us) had taken a toll on my available time along with working mostly from home (luckily!) and also focusing more of my dwindling available time on my model aircraft and helicopter hobbies. BUT I saw some comments over the past month or so that I felt needed responses.
First, Ian I really like your new LinearPi and feel it will be a great addition to the RPi audio system toolbox. Back in 2016 DIYAudio poster and group buy maven OPC sold a dual-section PSU board with 4 paralleled (||'d) LT3042's per section. I tried them and they quickly became my reference supply for DAC and source useage especially when used after the then-also-new Uptone Audio LPS-1 off-the-grid Ultracap supplies.
OPC got really busy with work and family and stopped supplying said boards. In 2017, DIYAudio poster Stammheim created a similar dual section board but with 3||LT0345's instead. Early on he sold raw boards for these and I purchased a number of them. AND when I compared one to the OPC dual 4||LT3042 boards I found the Stammheim boards sounded better to my ears. So I moved to these for my reference final regulation stages. Those are now available on his MPAudio.net website though only in finished form, no raw boards as too many had difficulty populating them successfully (they are challenging and exacting DIY SMD builds!). BTW, his finished products sell from $100-$230 USD, are well-designed and well-made, and I still highly recommend them.
So when I look at Ian's LinearPi, I see a board worth well above 25USD.
Why?
1st I know Ian is an accomplished EE who designs medical electronics in his day job and has a long track record of producing well-conceived and thought-out products that in many cases are ground-breaking
2nd I know he will be using real parts not counterfeit as sometimes found on some products from low-cost sources
3rd he included logic to integrate it with his other products that will also make it more functional than others even when used alone
4th it also is a full power supply, only add a transformer, not just a regulator board
It is so very easy to compare Ian's offerings to those 'low-cost' sources. AND IMHO from a design and execution perspective those sources fall short of Ian's products.
AND one must also realized that Ian's offerings to us are basically a gift to the DIY world. You only have to look at the price markup when these are sold from commercial outlets to see a more realistic price for them. AND even if Ian sold them at that price to us directly I still doubt he would be making a profit. He is very generous with his design time and knowledge in providing these. I doubt he even breaks even with his fabrication and prototyping costs on his sales to us DIY'ers. AND he is very generous with his time in helping us work through issues we have understanding how to implement his products and in repairing them when we break them.
My 2 cents.
Stay safe and healthy in these challenging time!
Greg in Mississippi
Sorry all for being absent for so long. Dealing with staying safe from Covid-19, especially in a state in the US that currently ranks as the 10th-worse outbreak IN THE WORLD (of course other US States are FAR ahead of us) had taken a toll on my available time along with working mostly from home (luckily!) and also focusing more of my dwindling available time on my model aircraft and helicopter hobbies. BUT I saw some comments over the past month or so that I felt needed responses.
First, Ian I really like your new LinearPi and feel it will be a great addition to the RPi audio system toolbox. Back in 2016 DIYAudio poster and group buy maven OPC sold a dual-section PSU board with 4 paralleled (||'d) LT3042's per section. I tried them and they quickly became my reference supply for DAC and source useage especially when used after the then-also-new Uptone Audio LPS-1 off-the-grid Ultracap supplies.
OPC got really busy with work and family and stopped supplying said boards. In 2017, DIYAudio poster Stammheim created a similar dual section board but with 3||LT0345's instead. Early on he sold raw boards for these and I purchased a number of them. AND when I compared one to the OPC dual 4||LT3042 boards I found the Stammheim boards sounded better to my ears. So I moved to these for my reference final regulation stages. Those are now available on his MPAudio.net website though only in finished form, no raw boards as too many had difficulty populating them successfully (they are challenging and exacting DIY SMD builds!). BTW, his finished products sell from $100-$230 USD, are well-designed and well-made, and I still highly recommend them.
So when I look at Ian's LinearPi, I see a board worth well above 25USD.
Why?
1st I know Ian is an accomplished EE who designs medical electronics in his day job and has a long track record of producing well-conceived and thought-out products that in many cases are ground-breaking
2nd I know he will be using real parts not counterfeit as sometimes found on some products from low-cost sources
3rd he included logic to integrate it with his other products that will also make it more functional than others even when used alone
4th it also is a full power supply, only add a transformer, not just a regulator board
It is so very easy to compare Ian's offerings to those 'low-cost' sources. AND IMHO from a design and execution perspective those sources fall short of Ian's products.
AND one must also realized that Ian's offerings to us are basically a gift to the DIY world. You only have to look at the price markup when these are sold from commercial outlets to see a more realistic price for them. AND even if Ian sold them at that price to us directly I still doubt he would be making a profit. He is very generous with his design time and knowledge in providing these. I doubt he even breaks even with his fabrication and prototyping costs on his sales to us DIY'ers. AND he is very generous with his time in helping us work through issues we have understanding how to implement his products and in repairing them when we break them.
My 2 cents.
Stay safe and healthy in these challenging time!
Greg in Mississippi
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Sonic impact of power supplies feeding UC pair output buffers... my experiences
Second there have been some comments on what impact the feeding supply has on the overall performance when using UC pair output buffers such as Ian's UcConditioner and similar products. I've been an early experimenter and adopter of these type of supplies starting with Ian's UCPi in late 2018. I reported some listening tests with the Allo Katana in posts 114 and 126 from December 2018 of this thread:
Getting the best out of Allo.com's new Katana DAC...
Note at that time I was using NESSCAP UCs which to my ears added an emphasis in the upper midrange and lower treble which over time I could not endure. The current Maxwell units Ian recommends do not do this, again to my ears and in my setups. AND using these later Maxwell units have made my recommendations on using these unqualified and enthusiastic from a sonic benefit perspective.
One thing that is easy to do with the bare UCPi UC pair configuration and impossible to do with Ian's latest UcConditioner offerings (due to the logic-based management of the output state) is to try UC pair output buffers with various power sources and by comparing sonics with the power connected and disconnected hear the sonic impact of each power source. As I was universally adopting UC pair buffers I did these comparisons with the power supplies I commonly use powering both 5V boards of an Allo Katana AND Ian's FiFoPi and Dual Mono ES9038Q2M DAC. AND listed from worse to best I found:
- Jameco Linear-Regulated wall wart
- The above modified with better diodes, caps, an AC filter, and a transformer-ringing snubber
- My stock AC supplies (described in post 4 of the Katana thread above) through the OPC 4||LT3042 board
- As above through a Stammheim 3||LT3045 board
- As above through a Stammheim 6||LT3045 board
- Each of the previous three in order powered by an Uptone Audio LPS-1 (TPS7A4700 output regulators)
- The previous but powered by an Uptone Audio LPS-1.2 (LT3045 output regulators)
- An Uptone Audio LPS-1 and Ian's LT3042 regulator board on the UCPi
- As above but with an LDOVR.com LT3045 regulator board on the UCPi
- An Uptone Audio LPS-1.2 and Ian's LT3042 regulator board on the UCPi
- As above but with an LDOVR.com LT3045 regulator board on the UCPi
Note that where I did not specify a regulator board on the UCPi I had the regulator position jumpered and was running the UCPis at the output voltage of the pre-regulator.
Also note that only the last four configurations using the LPS-1 or LPS-1.2 exhibited a very minor difference between having the power supply connected versus only powering the driven circuit with the charge stored in the UC alone. On the last two I am quite sure I COULD NOT detect that difference in a blind test. On all of the non-LPS-1/1.2 setups I am pretty sure I could detect them blind. BUT I have no means to do that and no motivation. IF that is important to you feel free to do your own testing, I am quite satisfied with mine.
I have also run UCPis in parallel with the 3.3V outputs of Ian's LiFePO4 power supply. TO MY EARS, TO MY LISTENING PREFERENCES, AND IN MY SETUPS, so far I preferred the UCs alone AND ALSO with the LPS-1.2 powering the UC pairs. I also preferred the LiFePO4 supply alone to adding the UC pairs. I know Ian and many others have come to different conclusions. I don't dispute their results at all, but chalk my results up to my preferences, hearing and setups.
Also note that my tests have included feeding 5V into the Allo Katana DAC and Microprocessor boards which then go through the onboard regulators of those boards. While conventional wisdom is that adding UC pair output buffers will gain the most benefit going directly into the driven chips AND my listening with Ian's FiFoPi and DM DAC boards confirmed that, the SQ increase I get on my Katana setup is also very large and to my ears almost as large as I get from using UC pair output buffers on Ian's Group Buy gear with the raw supplies above. Using 2 5V UC pair buffers on my Allo Katana setup transformed the sonic performance IMHO! (Note there is more involved in that transformation... will elaborate later).
Finally I suspected that UC pair output buffers would pair well with Salas regulators as long as they stayed stable into those Ultra-high-capacitance loads. Thanks Ian for testing them with Salas Reflektor-D's and confirming that. My only caution here is I would ALWAYS confirm stable operation with no oscillation on using UC pair output buffers on any other regulators but those mentioned by in these threads as working ok. Especially into high-performance regulators like the Salas and Super-Regulators, some of the discrete commercial regulators, and similar.
Again, my 2 cents.
And again, stay safe and healthy! Too many are not!
Greg in Mississippi
Second there have been some comments on what impact the feeding supply has on the overall performance when using UC pair output buffers such as Ian's UcConditioner and similar products. I've been an early experimenter and adopter of these type of supplies starting with Ian's UCPi in late 2018. I reported some listening tests with the Allo Katana in posts 114 and 126 from December 2018 of this thread:
Getting the best out of Allo.com's new Katana DAC...
Note at that time I was using NESSCAP UCs which to my ears added an emphasis in the upper midrange and lower treble which over time I could not endure. The current Maxwell units Ian recommends do not do this, again to my ears and in my setups. AND using these later Maxwell units have made my recommendations on using these unqualified and enthusiastic from a sonic benefit perspective.
One thing that is easy to do with the bare UCPi UC pair configuration and impossible to do with Ian's latest UcConditioner offerings (due to the logic-based management of the output state) is to try UC pair output buffers with various power sources and by comparing sonics with the power connected and disconnected hear the sonic impact of each power source. As I was universally adopting UC pair buffers I did these comparisons with the power supplies I commonly use powering both 5V boards of an Allo Katana AND Ian's FiFoPi and Dual Mono ES9038Q2M DAC. AND listed from worse to best I found:
- Jameco Linear-Regulated wall wart
- The above modified with better diodes, caps, an AC filter, and a transformer-ringing snubber
- My stock AC supplies (described in post 4 of the Katana thread above) through the OPC 4||LT3042 board
- As above through a Stammheim 3||LT3045 board
- As above through a Stammheim 6||LT3045 board
- Each of the previous three in order powered by an Uptone Audio LPS-1 (TPS7A4700 output regulators)
- The previous but powered by an Uptone Audio LPS-1.2 (LT3045 output regulators)
- An Uptone Audio LPS-1 and Ian's LT3042 regulator board on the UCPi
- As above but with an LDOVR.com LT3045 regulator board on the UCPi
- An Uptone Audio LPS-1.2 and Ian's LT3042 regulator board on the UCPi
- As above but with an LDOVR.com LT3045 regulator board on the UCPi
Note that where I did not specify a regulator board on the UCPi I had the regulator position jumpered and was running the UCPis at the output voltage of the pre-regulator.
Also note that only the last four configurations using the LPS-1 or LPS-1.2 exhibited a very minor difference between having the power supply connected versus only powering the driven circuit with the charge stored in the UC alone. On the last two I am quite sure I COULD NOT detect that difference in a blind test. On all of the non-LPS-1/1.2 setups I am pretty sure I could detect them blind. BUT I have no means to do that and no motivation. IF that is important to you feel free to do your own testing, I am quite satisfied with mine.
I have also run UCPis in parallel with the 3.3V outputs of Ian's LiFePO4 power supply. TO MY EARS, TO MY LISTENING PREFERENCES, AND IN MY SETUPS, so far I preferred the UCs alone AND ALSO with the LPS-1.2 powering the UC pairs. I also preferred the LiFePO4 supply alone to adding the UC pairs. I know Ian and many others have come to different conclusions. I don't dispute their results at all, but chalk my results up to my preferences, hearing and setups.
Also note that my tests have included feeding 5V into the Allo Katana DAC and Microprocessor boards which then go through the onboard regulators of those boards. While conventional wisdom is that adding UC pair output buffers will gain the most benefit going directly into the driven chips AND my listening with Ian's FiFoPi and DM DAC boards confirmed that, the SQ increase I get on my Katana setup is also very large and to my ears almost as large as I get from using UC pair output buffers on Ian's Group Buy gear with the raw supplies above. Using 2 5V UC pair buffers on my Allo Katana setup transformed the sonic performance IMHO! (Note there is more involved in that transformation... will elaborate later).
Finally I suspected that UC pair output buffers would pair well with Salas regulators as long as they stayed stable into those Ultra-high-capacitance loads. Thanks Ian for testing them with Salas Reflektor-D's and confirming that. My only caution here is I would ALWAYS confirm stable operation with no oscillation on using UC pair output buffers on any other regulators but those mentioned by in these threads as working ok. Especially into high-performance regulators like the Salas and Super-Regulators, some of the discrete commercial regulators, and similar.
Again, my 2 cents.
And again, stay safe and healthy! Too many are not!
Greg in Mississippi
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MUCH OF that 'more' is using the best power to and in your RPi-like source...
Third, I see some questions on the benefits of using UC pair output buffered supplies on RPi source... or even whether a good supply there makes a difference at all.
My experience is YES, it does! AND a lot of benefit is available there.
Back when only RPi's were available, I settled on the 2B model to avoid having WiFi radio on my audio source SBC. While I have not confirmed that personally I do have comments from others privately saying they have found that to be true.
I did play around with various power supplies feeding the RPi over time. I tried and in order of performance list the:
- 5V iFi SMPS
- An inexpensive 5V SMPS available from MicroCenter at the time that was recommended by some
- The modified K&K Low Voltage supply I had used with other 5V sources
- A single LPS-1 or later LPS-1.2
- A pair of current-matched LPS-1s
- A pair of LPS-1/1.2s with each feeding one section of an OPC dual-section 4||LT3042 board and the output of the sections paralleled
- As above but using an dual-section Stammheim/MPAudio.net 3||LT3045 board
The SMPS's sounded somewhat exciting but hashy.
The modified K&K was a good baseline all-around performer and my minimum standard.
The single LPS-1/1.2 were cleaner sounding than the K&K but less dynamic sounding. AND would not always start the RPi at power-on.
The current-matched LPS-1's were an experiment based on a favor to me from the manufacturer as he WILL NOT provide them matched. No advantage over the single to my ears.
The dual LPS-1/1.2s paralleled into the dual-section LT304x boards were the best in every way, detailed, dynamic, booted every time. They quickly became my reference with the LT3045 board ahead of the LT3042 board a worthwhile amount.
Then came the UC pair output buffers which I first implemented on my Ian GB FiFoPi/DM 9038Q2M and Allo Katana DAC and Microprocessor board combos.
About the same time Allo released their Shanti. IMHO it was a worthy match to the K&K with some benefits of greater definition in the highs... UC magic I called it. I could use either but somewhat preferred the the Shanti.
I tried the 350F and then the later model 325F Maxwell UC pair buffers with the LPS-1/1.2 paralleled into the dual-section Stammheim/MPAudio.net boards and honestly did not like the overall performance. The jump in performance I heard from my best examples of adding large UC pair output buffers in the areas of dynamics, instrument/voice definition and separation, quiet backgrounds and increased bass articulation, definition, and power were there but not at the levels I heard in other applications. AND the bass was tubby and less defined than I expected.
Then I tried them using the modified K&K and Shanti as the base power supply. AND BOTH worked very well. I slightly prefer the Shanti to my modified K&K but again could live with either.
Through all of this I was also trying non-standard RPi and RPi equivalents.
First, I modified a couple of RPi 2Bs to use all-linear regulated rails (5V-3.3v-1.8V) using the LDOVR.com Mezzanine board. That produced a very nice lowering of background noise and overall definition and naturalness to my ears and I immediately moved to these.
Then not long after the Allo Shanti came out they shipped their USBBridge Signature, basically an RPi with extensive all-linear rails, providing a seperately regulated rail for each chip's separate power rail voltage!
These leaped over the performance of my linear-regulation modified RPi 2Bs by a greater amount than those modified 2Bs did over the stock 2B.
With my setups' sources consisting of a Shanti->325F UC pair->USBBridge Signature, all was good, but things sounded a bit different. There was a sense of mid-bass fullness missing when using the 350F/325F UC pair output buffers versus my previous reference of the dual LPS-1.2 into a Stammheim/MPAudio paralleling board. After going back and forth a number of times over a couple-week period, I decided that my previous reference added a mid-bass emphasis over neutral. AND that the 350F/325F UC pair buffers did not exhibit that while overall strengthening the bass response when it was there in the recording. Still the UC pair setup sounded slightly on the lite side of neutral though less far from neutral than my previous reference.
Then I had the inspiration to try a pair of the 3000F UCs in this position as I had seen Ian do early on in this journey. WOAH! NOW to my ears things sounded almost smack-on neutral in the midbass though perhaps not quite as extended in the upper highs. BUT the 3000F pair took the 'UC Magic' down another octave or two making it sound like I had added subwoofers! DANG, I LIKED THIS!
I did try adding back either a 350F or 325F pair in parallel with the 3000F UC pair to further extend the highs. Similar to my experience with paralleling UCs with LiFePO4 I did not prefer it this way. In some ways a sense of solidity and focus to each instrument/voice was diminished. I find this quality important and have slanted my system setup and equipment choices to optimize for this... that may be why my findings on paralleling UCs with LiFePO4 differs from many others.
IMHO my bottom line is that UC magic is enhanced when they are also used on the source SBC. AND quieter power ON the SBC board is just as important as is what you feed it if not moreso.
I would not remove either the 3000F UC pair output buffers or the USBBridge Signatures in each of my 2 setups!
YMMV.
And again stay safe and healthy!
Greg in Mississippi
P.S. Note that I posted a shorter summary of all of the changes to my setups that I discuss in this post and the 2 above EXCEPT for the later addition of the 3000F UC pair output buffers on the USBBridge Signatures AND some significant network configuration changes in post #1201 of this thread:
IanCanada's Latest RPi GB Goodies Impressions... and your tweaks, mods and hints...
Third, I see some questions on the benefits of using UC pair output buffered supplies on RPi source... or even whether a good supply there makes a difference at all.
My experience is YES, it does! AND a lot of benefit is available there.
Back when only RPi's were available, I settled on the 2B model to avoid having WiFi radio on my audio source SBC. While I have not confirmed that personally I do have comments from others privately saying they have found that to be true.
I did play around with various power supplies feeding the RPi over time. I tried and in order of performance list the:
- 5V iFi SMPS
- An inexpensive 5V SMPS available from MicroCenter at the time that was recommended by some
- The modified K&K Low Voltage supply I had used with other 5V sources
- A single LPS-1 or later LPS-1.2
- A pair of current-matched LPS-1s
- A pair of LPS-1/1.2s with each feeding one section of an OPC dual-section 4||LT3042 board and the output of the sections paralleled
- As above but using an dual-section Stammheim/MPAudio.net 3||LT3045 board
The SMPS's sounded somewhat exciting but hashy.
The modified K&K was a good baseline all-around performer and my minimum standard.
The single LPS-1/1.2 were cleaner sounding than the K&K but less dynamic sounding. AND would not always start the RPi at power-on.
The current-matched LPS-1's were an experiment based on a favor to me from the manufacturer as he WILL NOT provide them matched. No advantage over the single to my ears.
The dual LPS-1/1.2s paralleled into the dual-section LT304x boards were the best in every way, detailed, dynamic, booted every time. They quickly became my reference with the LT3045 board ahead of the LT3042 board a worthwhile amount.
Then came the UC pair output buffers which I first implemented on my Ian GB FiFoPi/DM 9038Q2M and Allo Katana DAC and Microprocessor board combos.
About the same time Allo released their Shanti. IMHO it was a worthy match to the K&K with some benefits of greater definition in the highs... UC magic I called it. I could use either but somewhat preferred the the Shanti.
I tried the 350F and then the later model 325F Maxwell UC pair buffers with the LPS-1/1.2 paralleled into the dual-section Stammheim/MPAudio.net boards and honestly did not like the overall performance. The jump in performance I heard from my best examples of adding large UC pair output buffers in the areas of dynamics, instrument/voice definition and separation, quiet backgrounds and increased bass articulation, definition, and power were there but not at the levels I heard in other applications. AND the bass was tubby and less defined than I expected.
Then I tried them using the modified K&K and Shanti as the base power supply. AND BOTH worked very well. I slightly prefer the Shanti to my modified K&K but again could live with either.
Through all of this I was also trying non-standard RPi and RPi equivalents.
First, I modified a couple of RPi 2Bs to use all-linear regulated rails (5V-3.3v-1.8V) using the LDOVR.com Mezzanine board. That produced a very nice lowering of background noise and overall definition and naturalness to my ears and I immediately moved to these.
Then not long after the Allo Shanti came out they shipped their USBBridge Signature, basically an RPi with extensive all-linear rails, providing a seperately regulated rail for each chip's separate power rail voltage!
These leaped over the performance of my linear-regulation modified RPi 2Bs by a greater amount than those modified 2Bs did over the stock 2B.
With my setups' sources consisting of a Shanti->325F UC pair->USBBridge Signature, all was good, but things sounded a bit different. There was a sense of mid-bass fullness missing when using the 350F/325F UC pair output buffers versus my previous reference of the dual LPS-1.2 into a Stammheim/MPAudio paralleling board. After going back and forth a number of times over a couple-week period, I decided that my previous reference added a mid-bass emphasis over neutral. AND that the 350F/325F UC pair buffers did not exhibit that while overall strengthening the bass response when it was there in the recording. Still the UC pair setup sounded slightly on the lite side of neutral though less far from neutral than my previous reference.
Then I had the inspiration to try a pair of the 3000F UCs in this position as I had seen Ian do early on in this journey. WOAH! NOW to my ears things sounded almost smack-on neutral in the midbass though perhaps not quite as extended in the upper highs. BUT the 3000F pair took the 'UC Magic' down another octave or two making it sound like I had added subwoofers! DANG, I LIKED THIS!
I did try adding back either a 350F or 325F pair in parallel with the 3000F UC pair to further extend the highs. Similar to my experience with paralleling UCs with LiFePO4 I did not prefer it this way. In some ways a sense of solidity and focus to each instrument/voice was diminished. I find this quality important and have slanted my system setup and equipment choices to optimize for this... that may be why my findings on paralleling UCs with LiFePO4 differs from many others.
IMHO my bottom line is that UC magic is enhanced when they are also used on the source SBC. AND quieter power ON the SBC board is just as important as is what you feed it if not moreso.
I would not remove either the 3000F UC pair output buffers or the USBBridge Signatures in each of my 2 setups!
YMMV.
And again stay safe and healthy!
Greg in Mississippi
P.S. Note that I posted a shorter summary of all of the changes to my setups that I discuss in this post and the 2 above EXCEPT for the later addition of the 3000F UC pair output buffers on the USBBridge Signatures AND some significant network configuration changes in post #1201 of this thread:
IanCanada's Latest RPi GB Goodies Impressions... and your tweaks, mods and hints...
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Hi guys,
First of all, I'm an audiophile. I don't know how much I have spent on my system. But I really love this hobby. All of my projects were designed for myself at first. If I'm happy with the performance, I would then make it available to the community. I really enjoy this process.
I keep developing innovation projects for the audiophile DIYer community in the past years. I'm the first one who designed a real FIFO for audiophiles to improve digital music sound quality, then followed with multi-channel FIFO and DSD FIFO. And I'm the first one who developed a real LifePO4 battery power supply total solution, Now, I'm the first one who introduces ultra capacitor conditioner to the community. I'm very proud about that.
I keep a very high standard of designing my projects. I never release/recommend a project to you that I'm not happy with. Both UcConditioner and ConditionerPi are pure analog logic which are not very easy to develop. I keep doing design - order PCB/BOM - prototyping - debugging - improving progress for many times until I can finalize a project. For example, the UcConditioner, I did those cycles for 7 times before I release it. While the ConditionerPi I did for 5 times. Their performances were confirmed by both real measurements and listening tests. As well as good user experiences. The reason I'm talking about that is not for asking you using my project. I just want you to understand how much effort I paid behind each project and how much potential improvement they could bring to your system.
@Yunyun
Thank you for using UcConditioner and ConditionerPi. Please feel free to post your experiences. But from the picture of your system I saw some issues
1. As I mentioned many times that both ultracapacitors and batteries are passive power supplies. You need to use wires as big and short as possible. I can even measure the additional ripple when I use 3 inch 18 AWG wires (I'm gonna change to 16 AWG). But in your system, you are using more than 1 ft 24 AWG wires for all the power supplies. Did you calculate how much dynamic ripple they can introduce to your system voltage rails?
2. ConditionerPi was designed for RPi for reducing RPi EMI noise to make a more clear environment for the rest of the system. But you use a FifoPi and then followed by a mcFifo and then your DAC, how can you feel the power supply improvement of RPi in this case? I don't understand why you configure your system in this way.
3. We are talking about a Diy DAC that can compete with thousands dollars high end DAC, what's the rest of our system to experience the improvements?
Again, both UcConditioner and ConditionerPi give you potential to upgrade your system to a higher level, but you need to take care of implementing it by design and configure your system in the correct way.
BTW, as I started this thread, I don't want it to be closed or removed. Please follow the diyAudio non-commercial forums rules, not to post pricing or other ADs. I thank you for your cooperation
Thanks,
Ian
First of all, I'm an audiophile. I don't know how much I have spent on my system. But I really love this hobby. All of my projects were designed for myself at first. If I'm happy with the performance, I would then make it available to the community. I really enjoy this process.
I keep developing innovation projects for the audiophile DIYer community in the past years. I'm the first one who designed a real FIFO for audiophiles to improve digital music sound quality, then followed with multi-channel FIFO and DSD FIFO. And I'm the first one who developed a real LifePO4 battery power supply total solution, Now, I'm the first one who introduces ultra capacitor conditioner to the community. I'm very proud about that.
I keep a very high standard of designing my projects. I never release/recommend a project to you that I'm not happy with. Both UcConditioner and ConditionerPi are pure analog logic which are not very easy to develop. I keep doing design - order PCB/BOM - prototyping - debugging - improving progress for many times until I can finalize a project. For example, the UcConditioner, I did those cycles for 7 times before I release it. While the ConditionerPi I did for 5 times. Their performances were confirmed by both real measurements and listening tests. As well as good user experiences. The reason I'm talking about that is not for asking you using my project. I just want you to understand how much effort I paid behind each project and how much potential improvement they could bring to your system.
@Yunyun
Thank you for using UcConditioner and ConditionerPi. Please feel free to post your experiences. But from the picture of your system I saw some issues
1. As I mentioned many times that both ultracapacitors and batteries are passive power supplies. You need to use wires as big and short as possible. I can even measure the additional ripple when I use 3 inch 18 AWG wires (I'm gonna change to 16 AWG). But in your system, you are using more than 1 ft 24 AWG wires for all the power supplies. Did you calculate how much dynamic ripple they can introduce to your system voltage rails?
2. ConditionerPi was designed for RPi for reducing RPi EMI noise to make a more clear environment for the rest of the system. But you use a FifoPi and then followed by a mcFifo and then your DAC, how can you feel the power supply improvement of RPi in this case? I don't understand why you configure your system in this way.
3. We are talking about a Diy DAC that can compete with thousands dollars high end DAC, what's the rest of our system to experience the improvements?
Again, both UcConditioner and ConditionerPi give you potential to upgrade your system to a higher level, but you need to take care of implementing it by design and configure your system in the correct way.
BTW, as I started this thread, I don't want it to be closed or removed. Please follow the diyAudio non-commercial forums rules, not to post pricing or other ADs. I thank you for your cooperation
Thanks,
Ian
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Has anyone tried 26.4v by running the two lines in series? Call me bonkers, but wouldn't it be pretty great at powering a small class A amplifier? I think someone earlier on this this thread talked about using it to power a preamplifier.
Can more 2 mkIII's be bridged for further increases in voltage?
Can more 2 mkIII's be bridged for further increases in voltage?
@stretchneck
LifePO4 voltage rails are isolated between each other so there will be no problem to put them in serial to increase the output voltage. The only thing is that the total internal resistance will be increased. Please make sure you are OK with it.
LifePO4 battery cells have pretty low ESR so they are almost at room temperature in normal operating. Could be just a little bit warm if they are being charged from fully empty.
Regards,
Ian
Ian's products are not exactly plug & play, so not consumer grade.
Is it not DIY if one has to cut and strip lengths of wire? Choose or build from scratch a case? Select or build power supplies? personalize clocks or opamps?
Not everyone has the time or inclination (much less ability) to delve into spice & KiCad to build every element of the audio chain. If you do, more power to you, and your contributions are appreciated.
I think the problem is more related to capacity (i.e. listening time) than voltage for a class A application. Kind of a party breaker with an amp that needs recharging after 2 hours
@iancanada,
My apologies for those parts of my recent posts that helped prompt your recent response. So sorry. I will take more care in the future.
@sebbyp,
Many thanks for your recent post benchmarking your Ian GB stack against a commercial DAC. Very interesting! One thing I may have missed... what output stage do you use on the DAC? AND as someone who lives in an 'Hi-End Audio desert' with no nearby fellow audiophiles or good shops, reading a quick comparison of gear I use against a well-reviewed and regarded piece is VERY USEFUL! Again, THANKS!
Sometimes one forgets why we do this. In these current challenging times it is easy to get focused on many other things including working to stay alive. All of those things are important. Yet there is something, at least for me, refreshing and reviving from immersing myself in good music on a system I have had a hand in getting moving music from, even if it is only assembling well-designed and executed modules. I have 2 similar systems in my house, both providing a level of musicality and enjoyment I could only dream of a few years ago.
My downstairs setup is the one that I play most days. Good gear, in many ways identical to very similar to my upstairs setup. BUT my upstairs setup is in a much larger dedicated room with good room sonic treatments and some other important differences including a full Ian GB FiFoPi/DAC/IV stack along with his LiFePO4 supply and UC pair output buffers on the USBBridge Signature, FiFoPi, and DM 9038Q2M DAC.
Having not listened to this setup for several weeks, I'd forgotten the nearly magical qualities (to my ears) I currently get from my Ian GB stack there. AND I haven't even installed Ian's new 9038Plus DAC yet!!
As I've written previously, what I'm hearing now from both systems has me MUCH more inclined to listen way past my bedtime then spend time on my bench soldering up the next great upgrade.
I guess that's a good place to be.
So many thanks Ian for your so very crucial part in this!
I guess I am a true believer!
Greg in Mississippi
My apologies for those parts of my recent posts that helped prompt your recent response. So sorry. I will take more care in the future.
@sebbyp,
Many thanks for your recent post benchmarking your Ian GB stack against a commercial DAC. Very interesting! One thing I may have missed... what output stage do you use on the DAC? AND as someone who lives in an 'Hi-End Audio desert' with no nearby fellow audiophiles or good shops, reading a quick comparison of gear I use against a well-reviewed and regarded piece is VERY USEFUL! Again, THANKS!
Sometimes one forgets why we do this. In these current challenging times it is easy to get focused on many other things including working to stay alive. All of those things are important. Yet there is something, at least for me, refreshing and reviving from immersing myself in good music on a system I have had a hand in getting moving music from, even if it is only assembling well-designed and executed modules. I have 2 similar systems in my house, both providing a level of musicality and enjoyment I could only dream of a few years ago.
My downstairs setup is the one that I play most days. Good gear, in many ways identical to very similar to my upstairs setup. BUT my upstairs setup is in a much larger dedicated room with good room sonic treatments and some other important differences including a full Ian GB FiFoPi/DAC/IV stack along with his LiFePO4 supply and UC pair output buffers on the USBBridge Signature, FiFoPi, and DM 9038Q2M DAC.
Having not listened to this setup for several weeks, I'd forgotten the nearly magical qualities (to my ears) I currently get from my Ian GB stack there. AND I haven't even installed Ian's new 9038Plus DAC yet!!
As I've written previously, what I'm hearing now from both systems has me MUCH more inclined to listen way past my bedtime then spend time on my bench soldering up the next great upgrade.
I guess that's a good place to be.
So many thanks Ian for your so very crucial part in this!
I guess I am a true believer!
Greg in Mississippi
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I consider myself very fortunate in having stumbled across this diyAudio site some years ago. knowing very little of things electrical but with a love of tinkering and listening to good music.
Since then, and in my advancing years, I have kept myself joyfully occupied (my wife may disagree) buy learning enough to build some very nice Pass amplifiers, and all through the generosity of others who are willing to share.
I am not normally one to post, but I feel compelled to say that Ian’s generosity has allowed folks like me, and of I’m sure many others, to share his obvious talent in building a very inexpensive but high level piece of Audio equipment.
Members with higher skills will always debate the pros and cons as they should, and disagreements will ensue on the finer points, particularly with the subjective topic of listening to the results.
Thank you Ian, looking forward to the next group buy to start flowing.
Since then, and in my advancing years, I have kept myself joyfully occupied (my wife may disagree) buy learning enough to build some very nice Pass amplifiers, and all through the generosity of others who are willing to share.
I am not normally one to post, but I feel compelled to say that Ian’s generosity has allowed folks like me, and of I’m sure many others, to share his obvious talent in building a very inexpensive but high level piece of Audio equipment.
Members with higher skills will always debate the pros and cons as they should, and disagreements will ensue on the finer points, particularly with the subjective topic of listening to the results.
Thank you Ian, looking forward to the next group buy to start flowing.
Different ultracap for ConditionerPi
Ian
I am enjoying my new FifoPi Q2 Ultimate and hope to also use it in combination with the ConditionerPi I ordered at the same time.
However, Audiophonics was out of the recommended BCAP0010 X01 when I ordered the ConditionerPi (and TransportPi, FIfoPi Q2U and Accusilicon clock) so I found what I thought were the correct Ultracaps on eBay and ordered them from China, figuring that shipping would take a while but I'd get them eventually.
The very next day, I got the notification that the correct Ultracaps were in stock at Audiophonics, so ordered the 8 I needed so I'd have them more quickly.
That was about a month ago. Since then, the Ultracaps from China arrived and I discovered they are not the correct ones.
They are BCAP0010 T01 when you recommend BCAP0010 X01.
It was my mistake from not looking closely enough at the pictures...
They are close to the same size and will fit but have about double the ESR if I'm understanding the datasheets correctly.
And, unfortunately, the Ultracaps from Audiophonics have never arrived, in spite of the "5-10 days worldwide shipping" promise on the site.
Tracking shows the package left France in June and it provides a USPS partner tracking number that has never shown up on the USPS system. In an email, Audiophonics said they were opening an investigation with the shipper a couple weeks ago but aren't responding to my emails inquiring for the past week, unfortunately.
So, first, I'm curious if there's going to be a significant audible difference if I go ahead and solder in the T01 model or if I should just find another source for the correct Ultracaps because...
Second, while I love the products, I question Audiophonics as a partner given my experience with them.
Thanks
Chris
Ian
I am enjoying my new FifoPi Q2 Ultimate and hope to also use it in combination with the ConditionerPi I ordered at the same time.
However, Audiophonics was out of the recommended BCAP0010 X01 when I ordered the ConditionerPi (and TransportPi, FIfoPi Q2U and Accusilicon clock) so I found what I thought were the correct Ultracaps on eBay and ordered them from China, figuring that shipping would take a while but I'd get them eventually.
The very next day, I got the notification that the correct Ultracaps were in stock at Audiophonics, so ordered the 8 I needed so I'd have them more quickly.
That was about a month ago. Since then, the Ultracaps from China arrived and I discovered they are not the correct ones.
They are BCAP0010 T01 when you recommend BCAP0010 X01.
It was my mistake from not looking closely enough at the pictures...
They are close to the same size and will fit but have about double the ESR if I'm understanding the datasheets correctly.
And, unfortunately, the Ultracaps from Audiophonics have never arrived, in spite of the "5-10 days worldwide shipping" promise on the site.
Tracking shows the package left France in June and it provides a USPS partner tracking number that has never shown up on the USPS system. In an email, Audiophonics said they were opening an investigation with the shipper a couple weeks ago but aren't responding to my emails inquiring for the past week, unfortunately.
So, first, I'm curious if there's going to be a significant audible difference if I go ahead and solder in the T01 model or if I should just find another source for the correct Ultracaps because...
Second, while I love the products, I question Audiophonics as a partner given my experience with them.
Thanks
Chris
I always, always try to order domestically. Unless, it's a rare item that's absolutely too difficult to find in the States.
Mouser is a Warren Buffett company. Super solid, fast delivery and super dependable.
BCAP0010 P270 X01 Maxwell / Nesscap | Mouser
If you are on the east coast, you have 85 minutes for item to ship today.
I think if you buy 10 it's close enough to qty. 8 price.
Last time I looked into ConditionerPi, this was the latest recommended not the 270:
BCAP0010 P300 X11 Maxwell Technologies | Mouser
Develop ultra capacitor power supply and LiFePO4 battery power supply
Mouser is a Warren Buffett company. Super solid, fast delivery and super dependable.
BCAP0010 P270 X01 Maxwell / Nesscap | Mouser
If you are on the east coast, you have 85 minutes for item to ship today.
I think if you buy 10 it's close enough to qty. 8 price.
Last time I looked into ConditionerPi, this was the latest recommended not the 270:
BCAP0010 P300 X11 Maxwell Technologies | Mouser
Develop ultra capacitor power supply and LiFePO4 battery power supply
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I believe it's Colissimo's international delivery that is the issue, so good to know. I hope Audiophonics steps up to resolve this asap as I like their offerings in general.
Thanks, A123, good info. I wonder if the company was started by a cat?
I believe it was a big holiday in France last week (Bastille Day?). My shipment that I ordered over the weekend did not ship until near end of week. I got a notice they would be shutdown 2-3 business days beginning of the week. I'm in no rush so it doesn't make much of a difference. But for you it may explain the backlog of e-mails they may have to catch up on.
Good guess about the cat if they were from Northern California, but since the founder is from Southern California it's a boring family / last name. (Photo Attached).
I'm not sure if you are aware but you can order direct from Ian via Group Buys or via the spreadsheet (fill out then e-mail Ian):
Ian asynchronous I2S and S/PDIF FIFO KIT group buy
Just click the download button:
DocumentDownload/OrderFormEmpty.xls at master * iancanada/DocumentDownload * GitHub
I have not gone through the sales order process yet, but you are saving a good amount versus buying from Audiophonics + intl. shipping.
It's a nice alternative if there is no urgency. I think shipping is as low as $6 with no tracking if you just need simple parts which you can risk to lose. Canada Post handoff to USPS is much more straightforward than a package flying over the ocean.
If things work out for your current project, hope to see you in the GB thread. But reminder, this is not Mouser where they are ready to ship out in 15 minutes. It can takes weeks/months to process.
I'm pretty sure this is how it works, but I can't confirm until I go through this whole process.
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