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-   -   Iron Core Transformer Formula (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/200849-iron-core-transformer-formula.html)

 pieter t 20th November 2011 02:11 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by AndrewT (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/200849-iron-core-transformer-formula-post2788418.html#post2788418) Whereas, John's first formula result in 892T for 230Vac with 1160sqmm. This seems to confirm that Johns' first formula has assumed B=1000mT = 1T Have I got this correct?
Yes that is correct.
John's first formula was not quite complete; it missed the x 50/f to calculate the B.

 AndrewT 20th November 2011 02:36 PM

I think you two Members are confirming that John's first equation is correct.
All that's missing is the one missing assumption for which the stated formula hold true. i.e. 1T. He has already confirmed the 50Hz.

 AndrewT 20th November 2011 02:41 PM

Am I correct in guessing that the extra 10% for Turns on the secondary is related to a transformer regulation of 10%?

In which case that +10% should be replaced by the target regulation.

I can see that turns ratio primary:secondary is an easier way to get to secondary turns. But, knowing the primary T/V is useful for many subsequent design calculations.

 pieter t 20th November 2011 02:50 PM

That is right Andrew (your post #12)

The complete formula is:

B = 50/f x 45 / (Afe x N) x U, where

f = frequency in Hz;
U = rms value of voltage in V;
Afe = magnetic core cross-section in cm²;
B = flux density amplitude in T;
N = number of turns.

Source: Vacuumschmelze data on GOSS c-cores.
Please note that for other core configurations the value "45" might be slightly different.

 pieter t 20th November 2011 02:56 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by AndrewT (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/200849-iron-core-transformer-formula-post2788557.html#post2788557) Am I correct in guessing that the extra 10% for Turns on the secondary is related to a transformer regulation of 10%?
Not IMO.
Regulation is a more complex function of currents and flux density.
Transformers working towards core saturation will be more "regulating" than transformers working at or below 1T.

 AndrewT 20th November 2011 03:00 PM

Could you express a simple way to use or modify John's second equation.

or is
Quote:
 Once you know the Turns / Volt its a simple case of working out the Primary and Secondary Turns.
the simplest way to proceed. These turns ratios give winding emf. Fully loaded voltage values require knowledge of the final transformer regulation.
Can you see a way to address this?

 pieter t 20th November 2011 03:12 PM

Andrew,

When interested I can give the full equations for a calculation, based on a "non regulating" type (I don't like transformers working at their limits).

 TonyTecson 20th November 2011 09:38 PM

Quote:
 I don't like transformers working at their limits
that is why i run my primaries below 1T........

 TonyTecson 20th November 2011 09:56 PM

Quote:
 Transformers working towards core saturation will be more "regulating" than transformers working at or below 1T.
i trade "regulation" for low exciting current and lower operating temperatures.....

equations are fine, they are mere guides as to how to proceed with traffo buildup....design is iterative process....

what happens if you find out that winding primary you end up with 5.5 layers? you can either use a bigger wire if space permits, use a smaller wire, make it 6 full layers and adjust the turns, or use smaller number of turns with just 5 layers.............or you can wind a screen winding.......

there are many design choices one can make, as long as you stay below the knee of the magnetization curves, you are able to do any of these things....

bottomline, whatever figure that comes out of the formula does not mean you have to stick to it, it never happens that way in the real world.....

 JOHN BALI 22nd November 2011 02:12 AM

now I can recalculate every things, every thinks too :):)

my formula is OVERSIMPLIFIED, yes
because I like simple things but works nice

So that is the complete formula.
I just remember the 45 * V/A but don't know where its come from
for the 49.5, I get from 45 * 10%, just for minimize the looses from the cooper wire
so its for regulation too

Then for the wire to be used to winding
(don't have any note just from memories in my head)
get this
Allowable currents to flow in the cooper wire per area (cm²) symbol S
S = 3A to 5A per cm²
for 100VA transformer I use 0.25 to 0.3mm diameter cooper wire for primariy (220volt)
for secondary I use as thick as possible from winding window left
Is this formula okay or not?

Thanks

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