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Opinions requested to help me select the best horn/fullrange drivers

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Okay, the reason I am not continuing to discuss the single driver is because I have a solid state amp. Others have advised me that that is problematic because of high output impedance.....

Let me call BS to that - I've heard drivers such as the Alpairs, TangBands and several models of Fostex work just fine with SS amps ranging from Nelson Pass's ACA, through at least half a dozen models of class D, chip amps such as TomC's wonderful LM 3886DR and Modulus86, and Denon, Marantz and Onkyo surround receivers. Really, there are too many candidates to list - that's just a few that I've heard over the past 5 yrs or so that stand out.

Do all of these combinations sound identical- no
Is there a single absolute, objective, double blind test champion best for any particular choice of driver and aesthetically acceptable enclosure? Probably not

That said, for all that a smaller FR driver such as the A7.3 can do very well, there are valid concerns if trying to use any of them beyond their SOA - hence the recommendations for high-passing them and using supporting mid-woofers. In other words, a 2-way system, albeit crossed over lower (circa 200 - 300) than when using a 3/4" dome or ribbon . Absent dogma, all are valid approaches when well executed.
 
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I've got to agree with Chrisb. Mostly (haven't heard a Class D I really like., yet.). I use all Herron Audio electronics. The solid state M1 amps work great on single driver speakers. Their price tag is a bit high for the pure DIY hobbiest market (~ $7,000US a pair), but their performance is, IMO, as good as there is. Teamed with A7.3 Pensils and good front-end equipment, it's hard to find a better single-driver full-range system. But that's just my opinion. YMMV.

I strongly agree with the suggestion of lf filtering on the A7.3. For a couple of reasons. First, regardless of which side of the debate you're on, there is a potential modulation issue with single fr drivers. Second, why jeopardize the driver by feeding it too much accidental bass?
 
Nothing like stimulating conversation, especially for me who has been following these conversations without being able to decide if those that are talking really know what they are talking about. A7.3 and mid w for me in the biggest prettiest wood box I can make. Might have to have dead space just to make me feel better.

Thank you guys. now back to the IIHF junior final....Go Canada!!
 
I think the community here could jointly compile a short list for your consideration. Who knows, there might even be some agreement as to methodology and candidates for the mid-bass drivers:D

I will share some of the experience I've had with bass and midbass drivers. But before this gets out of control, would you like to suggest some criteria? Maybe some price points?

And before we get too far along do you think we should check with Dave when he's available and up to it to see if this is consistent with the intent of this forum and working with Dave's approval.
 
Dave will not be in any position to be near a keyboard anytime in the near future - i.e. several months yet, so having been the no longer silent partner in Planet10 for the past 15 yrs, I'll have to suffice as its surrogate official voice in the interim.

That self aggrandizement aside, I'm sure that any suggestions or personal observations on systems / combinations of mid / midbass drivers with the Alpair 7.3 that seem to be currently in discussion would be appreciated by DaveS * , the OP on this particular thread.

I, of course have my own opinions on the matter, on which Dave* & I have not always necessarily been in agreement.

* way too many Daves - in addition to davesbimmer, one of mr D's longtime personal friends has the same surname, as does one of my brothers in law, a well accomplished forum member, and the gentleman who signs the paycheck at my full time day job - it's enough to get a old guy like me all confused. :D
 
Chrisb - Thanks for the clarification. I didn't think Dave* (DD) was in his business venture alone, but didn't know the details.

If that's the case, where do we start the list of drivers? Do you want to start another thread and begin the discussion by suggesting some criteria? Maybe some parameters including cost, potential freq range of operation, required box size, blah, blah, blah?
 
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Well, if davesbimmer is still interested in the subject, I'd be inclined to say this is as good a place as any to continue, but migrating to the general FR section could be fine as well.

Note from the time stamp on my prior post above that I'm burning a bit at both ends, and apologize for the tone of recent weeks' rambling / OT posts.

Back to topic - if we can agree that this has evolved into discussion of a "FAST" type 2-way , I very much like the idea of the A7.3 with supporting 6 - 8" mid-woofers. The big A12PW /7.3 MTM is certainly a costlier way to go than most might want, but to be honest I've been using a very narrow range of mid-woofers for at least 10yrs now, that the floor should be opened up to conversations as to which size / brands/ models might be most suitable for this particular system.

I don't want to seem to have an "axe to grind" here - there's gonna be more than one approach that could work very well - however, as this thread is still within the commercial sector, I'd be remiss to not make suggestions from "our" own library and inventory ;)
 
Thanks, gentlemen. A FAST 2way based on the A7.3 with a budget under $1k Canadian is where I want to go. Floor standing big box. We can move, start over anywhere. All very interesting to me.

There once was a recreational soccer team in Saskatoon where the requirement was to have a surname of "David". They had 20 on there roster. Way to many Daves.
 
I was always envious of those with the older Klipsch horns, which are smaller than the Bozaks. But, that is too much floor space and are for much larger room volumes than I live with. 6 Ft max height and under 24" square floor space. That leaves many options, but want to make something larger than a Frugel-Horn Mk3.

My "big box" reference is to build bigger than many of modern bookshelf type that do occupy many of the diy discussions here.
 
Re size, the dimensions of the Alpair MTM as discussed above are 405x290x1220mm = approx 16x11.5x48". While that's both much wider and taller than either the FH3 or FHXL, that's also a much shallower footprint, and they don't require the same space behind as any type of rear mouth exit back loaded horn I've ever built. So these aren't tiny bookshelf units, but certainly not the same size as a K-Horn, nor requiring the same real estate as an open baffle, or large dipole planar of any flavour -i.e. ESL or magnetic .

Attached are photos of the earlier build of the same configuration described above, using the much less expensive CSS EL166 / Mark Audio Woofer6 and Fostex FF85WK. I don't have the exact dimensions at hand, but as best as I can recall, they where close to the same size as the Alpairs.
 

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Well Chris is moving me along nicely.

I have a question about construction material. My intention was to make all the visible wooden pieces from solid maple. Most people use MDF and finish with veneer. MDF is dense but Maple and other typical furniture construction wood are close if properly assemble.

Will I be disappointed with the sonic results using solid maple?
 
Dave - as large a piece as I think you're now considering would be a challenge in solid wood, and something I've not mentioned yet - having assumed that my opinion on the subject was well known - is that I'd strongly recommend against MDF for such a build. Baltic birch plywood - under any of the numerous local trade names would be my suggestion.

As with all construction materials, distribution / availability of brands will vary nationwide , and the big box stores cannot be relied upon for quality sheet goods. One of the few Cdn chains that carries or can order in the good stuff is Windsor Plywood, and you've got a branch in Regina. The product comes in a range if thicknesses from 3mm - 25mm, and in that oddball European size of 5x5ft - so your cutting plans need to take that into account. Also noteworthy is that the quality of face veneers is a bit of a gamble - dare I say "Russian roulette"? ;), so while it can take a clear top coat nicely, it accepts stains very poorly, and as is generally sold in a Canada as a Shop grade, may be subject to very noticeable patches and smaller unmatched pinhole knots. None of those aesthetic defects affect structural integrity, but can be magnified by finishing.

Baltic Birch Plywood | Windsor Plywood

Another Canadian distributor with branch in your hometown is
Regina | McKillican

Achieving the degree of finish as seen on the two builds I'd posted photos of can easily run into $500 - $600, or more for materials for the enclosures alone - depending of course on species of veneer selected. There are 2 4x8ft sheets of quarter cut Sapele on the Alpair MTMs, at wholesale cost of $300 each, while the more " pedestrian" Cherry or Black Walnut range from $80 -$100 per sheet.
But when you calculate the time and materials to get a half way decent paint finish on a pair of enclosures this size, the veneer staters looking almost economical.

PS - Bernie, he's currently contemplating boxes approx the same size as the big Alpair MTMs - that'd be a lot of tine and expense in all solids, I'd think?
 
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Thanks everyone. Since I have cabinet making equipment in my shop and have made a bureau or two out of large panels I think I will do solid wood. I use baltic birch panels for many things(and purchase from the retailers Chris listed), but something fancy is always solid wood of some sort. It seems that Bernie and I are more comfortable with built up panels than Chris.
 
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