For me the 7's are amazingly articulate, but try and play electronic music, or a movie with a heavy soundtrack and they start to struggle (and sometimes with scary Xmax), taking off those last few octaves allows them to excel in the range they do best, without missing out on those church organs or double bass...
Why not opt for the 12P instead??
Why not opt for the 12P instead??
Yes, I mean WP, thanks. I am just surprised why would you want to pair one extremely wide range driver with another
Very well behaved for simple low order XOs. We have done this with other brands and gotten very good results. Here & here.
We are excited about these new woofers... i have a design (in progress, over 2 years old) that took consideration for the expectation that we would see A12pw.
dave
well for one thing, the 10.3 or 10P can probably go lower - and in a much smaller box, and secondly, I find the "FAST" high passed + woofer combination of 7s and bass driver of your choice to be more detailed in the upper mids and top end than the 12P
In our alignment (optimal) , A10.3 fits a smaller box, A10p, A12p same volume.
The A12p is capable of the least extension, its only edge comes with dynamics.
A12pw is a different beast. Lower efficiency, higher Vas means it can go lower, lower than any MA driver that preceded it.
dave
So Mark may need to qualify his earlier statement "not all Alpairs aren't woofers"
Yes..............................
Comes back to comments I've made on other threads when talking about power-handling and the desire for "power" generally. The 12PW remains a "light load" driver. Its a re-tuned 12P capable of bass extension. It is possible to get a bass response that is satisfying without the need for huge woofs and/or a tone of power. However for those can't resist the attraction towards big-boys toys and/or are "play loud rock-un-rollers", Markaudio drivers shouldn't be their first choice. Its simply a question of picking the right gear for the particular job guys have in mind.
Thanks
Mark.
Last edited:
I know this is a bit OT, but what about the idea of an A7P MicroTower? Maybe plus an A12PW? Separate chambers... You can whip that up in a few hours, right, Chris?
yah, thanx a lot
- but I was thinking with MAOP7 - seriously guys these MAOP drivers are something pretty damned special 
what makes me think you've not already done the math?
That being said, the A7.3's that sit in my main system crossed to a decent subwoofer do Rock quite good! This coming from a person who listens to a little bit everything from classical, rock, metal, country, hiphop, blues, jazz, etc. Mind you, running them fullrange without bass support does require a little attention to volume levels and genres, but with bass support, they really do rock well!
I played around with an A12p with bass support and the dynamics were stunning. Quite a combo. That same A12p currently sits in a bit of a hacked together open baffle for testing.
With proper implementation I personally find the Mark Audio drivers be very Rock worthy. Of course what I consider to be loud and unruly may be quite and tame in the eyes (or ears) of others.
That being said, the A7.3's that sit in my main system crossed to a decent subwoofer do Rock quite good! This coming from a person who listens to a little bit everything from classical, rock, metal, country, hiphop, blues, jazz, etc. Mind you, running them fullrange without bass support does require a little attention to volume levels and genres, but with bass support, they really do rock well!
I played around with an A12p with bass support and the dynamics were stunning. Quite a combo. That same A12p currently sits in a bit of a hacked together open baffle for testing.
With proper implementation I personally find the Mark Audio drivers be very Rock worthy. Of course what I consider to be loud and unruly may be quite and tame in the eyes (or ears) of others.
Hello Robert,
Good to hear from you. Yes........if Markaudio drivers are used in mixed systems where a heavy bass load is done by a larger suitable drive, there's no technical reason not to "rock un roll"
I'm still of a mind to produce a larger bass driver. The 12PW is the "forerunner"; Low mass, bass-wide, near-flat response, acoustically efficient air-pusher that doesn't need a bucket-load of power.
Just a question of time, energy
and the green-stuff$$$$. Rest assured, if I can put a 10" or 12" super driver together, I'll seek guys feedback along the way. Cheers
Mark.
Last edited:
I can confirm what Robert is saying. While I don't do rock often or metal ever, I did some playing around with A10P's over stereo 12's. At least for me, palpable chest-thumping starts at ~85dB in the 50-80Hz range. This is entirely handled by the 12's. I can easily hit 100dB (earmuffs and earplugs installed!!) and the A10P's are running with something like 5-10w RMS and virtually no cone movement. So, Mark, there's what it will take for me to rock.
There is another side to low. Take Bach's "Passacaglia and Fugue in c" (C1) and Bela Fleck's "Flight of the Cosmic Hippo" (B0). While The A10P in my MLTL will reproduce these note at a reasonable volume, a larger driver produces them with an ease a fluidity that is missing with a smaller driver.
Bob
There is another side to low. Take Bach's "Passacaglia and Fugue in c" (C1) and Bela Fleck's "Flight of the Cosmic Hippo" (B0). While The A10P in my MLTL will reproduce these note at a reasonable volume, a larger driver produces them with an ease a fluidity that is missing with a smaller driver.
Bob
Hi. I need help advice with choice proper drivers to play different varieties rock music, sometimes also jazz. I exactly finished my 2a3 amplifier which will be source of power I read many positive feedbacks about Alpair drivers, but I still don't know which one will be best for me. A7.3 in BR supported by subwoofer, A10.3, A12p (BR or Pensil), combo A7p&12PW. I will be very grateful for any suggestion.
I read many positive feedbacks about Alpair drivers, but I still don't know which one will be best for me. A7.3 in BR supported by subwoofer, A10.3, A12p (BR or Pensil), combo A7p&12PW. I will be very grateful for any suggestion.
Last edited by a moderator:
Alpair10P, passive line level XO around 120 or so to stereo powered woofers.
While they are capable of deeper extension than that, I think the power of the 2A3 would limit the attainable SPLs and dynamics.
I've not yet heard the latest 10s in a Pensil, but they certainly work like a charm in the FHXL
While they are capable of deeper extension than that, I think the power of the 2A3 would limit the attainable SPLs and dynamics.
I've not yet heard the latest 10s in a Pensil, but they certainly work like a charm in the FHXL
Last edited:
careful what you wish for
I'd want something along the lines of a JBL2225, but with "a bit more cow-bell"
Hi Guys,
Agreed, the 225 JBL is my kind of driver. Low MMS (<11 gram) it has a 5mm excursion, good for its era. Its operating frequency range is limited, so we'd be extending this to something over 7-kHz and trade-off some efficiency for additional excursion and lower Fo. As regards box sizing, they become monsters by todays standards, JBL suggesting 140 litres in their literature. I guess many end-users might be looking at OB for an application.
Take a fresh look at the 12PW. While its SPL is a lick over 88dB, its moving mass remains relatively low (11.7g) so it won't need allot of power to move. I've used my 8 watt 300B SET with ease. SPL doesn't tell you everything about the efficiency of a driver, it isn't a holy grail.
Should (if) I produce a larger driver, it would be technically different from the JBL. The challenge comes in terms of application: OB or box? High electrical damping = more SPL = lower Qt and less excursion, or low damping = more excursion = lower Fo = more Vas. There's no "free lunch" and these issues weren't resolved in the big woofer thread that ran earlier in the year.
Thanks
Mark.
Agreed, the 225 JBL is my kind of driver. Low MMS (<11 gram) it has a 5mm excursion, good for its era. Its operating frequency range is limited, so we'd be extending this to something over 7-kHz and trade-off some efficiency for additional excursion and lower Fo. As regards box sizing, they become monsters by todays standards, JBL suggesting 140 litres in their literature. I guess many end-users might be looking at OB for an application.
Take a fresh look at the 12PW. While its SPL is a lick over 88dB, its moving mass remains relatively low (11.7g) so it won't need allot of power to move. I've used my 8 watt 300B SET with ease. SPL doesn't tell you everything about the efficiency of a driver, it isn't a holy grail.
Should (if) I produce a larger driver, it would be technically different from the JBL. The challenge comes in terms of application: OB or box? High electrical damping = more SPL = lower Qt and less excursion, or low damping = more excursion = lower Fo = more Vas. There's no "free lunch" and these issues weren't resolved in the big woofer thread that ran earlier in the year.
Thanks
Mark.
Last edited:
Mark: That was chosen as a probably well known benchmark, and one I've heard a fair bit of recently - yes hard to envision you intentionally designing any driver with such a limited operating bandwidth . There are scores of such extant- I'm sure anything you release would be reMarkable in their own way.