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Frugel Horn Support Woofer/Sub

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Hi,
Got my first set of Frugel horn's built. Love them, love them. But, I can't currently corner load so I'm missing out on a little bass ( a little treble too but I'm working on some tweeters to help). Looking thru the Planet10 site I found the drawings for a Push-Push Sub, looks relatively easy to build. Would these be good compliments for the Mk3 FrugelHorns?
I don't have an idea for speakers yet, just looking for a simple design to build and a pair of these seem within my build skills.
Anyone have any ideas/opinions?
Thanks,
Alonzo
 
which drivers in your FH3?

depending on that, the lack of available corner loading might well bring the frequency of required support high enough that stereo woofers, which I think integrate (or don't) differently from (even multiples of ) single channel subs, i.e the former more seamlessly

does that make sense?

in which case I rather like the stealth approach - single 6-8" mid woofer ( not "sub") drivers, in a triangular prism enclosure mounted directly behind the mouth of FH3 (mostly hidden, so needn't be of James Krenov heirloom quality)

there are too many candidates for drivers for this application to list, and with the silly low entry cost of either plate "sub" amps or digital/ PC based XO's & class D amp kits, the options are endless

so far we've mainly used the CSS SDX7 - cause they can work in very small volumes and we have a stash
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
Alonzo has FE126eN^2.

Here is a pic of our StealthWoofers in action. They have proven very good. They are being driven by a pair of 80W Fostec plate amps (in the cherry cube on the left hand side of the rack.

248075d1320532521-frugel-horn-mk3-picture-gallery-p10-fh3-fe126en-comp.jpg


The woofer can be made larger or smaller by changing the height of the base triangle. The ones pictured have SDX7.

dave
 
If the volume is appropriate for the given woofer, does the prism need to be as tall as the FH3? Am I trying to load the whole back horn or primarily the throat?

While I'm at it, what is the prism doing for me that I wouldn't get from straight wall loading? Are we trying to avoid reflection back into the horn?
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
If the volume is appropriate for the given woofer, does the prism need to be as tall as the FH3? Am I trying to load the whole back horn or primarily the throat?

Full height (or taller) is ideal. at least 2/3 height. But if you start doing the match it quickly becomes appartent that you don't have much volume to work with. Our prisms are on the order of 14 litre/ half cubic ft net which with heavy stuffing (love that Ultratouch) gives a Q of just under bessel (0.58) with all the room gain you get with the face of the woofer inches from the wall, an even lower Q wouldn't hurt. That said these things work really well.

In this picture, the 2 black cubes on either side of the rack are the same net volume with the amps built in.

241767d1316998980-3-driver-audition-fostex-mark-audio-ufonkense-comp.jpg


Are we trying to avoid reflection back into the horn?

Exactly.

dave
 
Thanks for the reply's. I like the Stealthwoofer looks, got tired of the little square box subs a long time ago. I need to look around at what speakers I can salvage, got 2 cambridge sworks midwoofers that can be repurposed to the prisms, are there Stealthwoofer plans available or is it simply building a 3'X1' sealed prism and stuffing it up to the driver.
Have you ever considered making them open baffle? It would be simple to put in piano hinges and open or close the woofers to suit rooms and distance to the wall.
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
The plans are pretty generic. At some point i will add a page to the plan set that talksin generalities. An OB is likely a challenge unless you are willing to make something BIG.

I do have some old FH1 deflector flat-pak kits that could be repurposed that can be had for postage (about 2/3 height & MDF).

dave
 
Thanks for the reply's. I like the Stealthwoofer looks, got tired of the little square box subs a long time ago. I need to look around at what speakers I can salvage, got 2 cambridge sworks midwoofers that can be repurposed to the prisms, are there Stealthwoofer plans available or is it simply building a 3'X1' sealed prism and stuffing it up to the driver.

If the drivers being (re)purposed to the task are capable of working in small sealed box, yes - but often the problem is sizing the box to fit dimensions of the driver frame and extent of magnet.

Have you ever considered making them open baffle? It would be simple to put in piano hinges and open or close the woofers to suit rooms and distance to the wall.

as Dave noted, the floor space required for OBs in general to work, and particularly for deep bass, is rather counter to the "stealth" intent of this particular approach
 
Hi guys, good thread as its asking near enough what I want to!

I'm building a tubelab amp so I'm only going to have 2 channels to play with. My fe126en equipped fh3's are corner loaded and sound great but like the original poster I'm still lacking in bass.

I had some Q-Acoustic 2020 2 way speakers prior to the fh3's and these were more than bassy enough for my liking despite the small driver. They could shake the room nicely but they had little in the way of mid range hence the fh3's and full range drivers.

So, I was looking at using the rogers ab1 style sub with a kef b110 type of midrange driver such as these 5¼" 80w Carbon Fibre cone 8 Ohm B110B/SP1057 type Hi-fi Bass/Mid speaker driver | eBay

Do you think it possible to use these with a crossover or in parallel/series with a cap?
 
Hi guys, good thread as its asking near enough what I want to!

I'm building a tubelab amp so I'm only going to have 2 channels to play with. My fe126en equipped fh3's are corner loaded and sound great but like the original poster I'm still lacking in bass.

I had some Q-Acoustic 2020 2 way speakers prior to the fh3's and these were more than bassy enough for my liking despite the small driver. They could shake the room nicely but they had little in the way of mid range hence the fh3's and full range drivers.

So, I was looking at using the rogers ab1 style sub with a kef b110 type of midrange driver such as these 5¼" 80w Carbon Fibre cone 8 Ohm B110B/SP1057 type Hi-fi Bass/Mid speaker driver | eBay

Do you think it possible to use these with a crossover or in parallel/series with a cap?

In the long run you'll get better results from running some degree of HP filter for the FE126E, and power the woofer(s) with separate SS amp.

If you'll not be using a separate pre-amp with the Tubelab amp, it should be possible to split the input signal after the volume control to provide a line output for the amp driving the woofer(s). A Jolida amp that I bought over 10yrs ago had exactly such a connection.

Install a simple 1st order HP filter (single cap per channel) after the volume pot to the Tubelab's input tube, and toggle switch to short those out to run amp full range.

I did this with a pair of Decware Zen C amps for a custom bi-amped high efficiency speaker system a few years ago, and it worked like a charm.

Keep in mind that the component values and parts cost for passive XO at the lower frequencies you're probably considering ( i.e. under 100Hz) can be pretty high, and this is not the place to scrimp on quality and use cheap EL caps .
 
That sounds do-able. I have an Arcam 90.2 ss amp which'll be redundant once the tubelab is up and running so I could make use of that. I've also got a kit for a simple push pull tubelab amp on the way too so maybe I could integrate two tube amps once built into my setup to run a range of drivers...

Any ideas on enclosures at all? There's oodles of info on two way bass reflex and large 8"+ sub boxes but nothing for a smaller mid/bass driver asides from the Rogers AB1.
 
Alonzo has FE126eN^2.

Here is a pic of our StealthWoofers in action. They have proven very good. They are being driven by a pair of 80W Fostec plate amps (in the cherry cube on the left hand side of the rack.

248075d1320532521-frugel-horn-mk3-picture-gallery-p10-fh3-fe126en-comp.jpg


The woofer can be made larger or smaller by changing the height of the base triangle. The ones pictured have SDX7.

dave
Any chance of a photograph of the stealthwoofers from the otherside? How far is it placed away from the wall? Thanks!
 
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