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Discussion split from - Anyone making Apogee bass panels..
Discussion split from - Anyone making Apogee bass panels..
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Old 3rd February 2021, 01:12 PM   #21
Polydactyl is offline Polydactyl  United States
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Graz never really quite answered the questions, did he?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grazinoz View Post
We supplied such jigs from the start with a more accurate updated installation procedure. Still the failures occurred.
Just because you have been unsuccessful with jigs and failures doesn’t mean that that only you have the last word on the topic. Hoping someone will innovate jigs for bass panels and new ways to install them, making in-home repairs possible, if still tricky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grazinoz View Post
You guys have no idea of how the original planar bass came to be, the true tale really surprised me...
Here we go with that coyness again. OK, Graz, then please just tell us that “true tale”.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 01:55 PM   #22
Davey is offline Davey  United States
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You're wasting your breath with Graz. Everything is always hand-waving rhetoric and he will never relent on this stance.
'Best to just move on.

Applause to the DIYaudio moderators for moving these posts off the original thread.

Dave.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 03:27 PM   #23
artm is offline artm  United States
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I asked the mod to move the posts.

I do take offense to this:

"Two kinds of people push for bass parts to attempt to repair Apogee's. The genuinely unaware - and those seeking to make a business of it. Both bad for the brand."

I would bet there are a few users from the old Apogee forum, and this one, who may be capable of doing a correct installation. So, no, I for one am not "genuinely unaware". I've seen the videos, read the procedure, etc.. I think I can do it. If not, too bad for me. Would I ask Graz for relief in a second batch of parts? No f'in way!

But...I do also agree with Graz: the process is intricate. Once you open a pair of Apogees, you just may find other issues that escalate a DIY rebuild. An old frame would be my biggest issue. I don't know if I'd want to invest money and time in replacing panels just to still have a cheap frame. I would probably want to build a new frame.

Better yet, I would just buy a different speaker that won't need maintenance!
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Old 1st March 2021, 02:25 AM   #24
john65b is offline john65b  United States
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I do not understand how this all gets so tribal - so hostile.

Tonight, I was reading back on old emails looking for a particular one regarding my T-IVa maggies, and found an email from one of the biggest jerks I ever encountered.

I had found a pair of 1 Ohm Scinnies in Texas and shipped them up to Chicago. They also had "the buzz" and was preparing to complete the silicone fix, when my worst fear happened, my multimeter sitting on top of a table fell and ruptured the bass panel. So pissed...so angry!!

Anyway, I enquired about replacement panels to the Graz installers and realized replacement bass panels were not a DIY option. I looked into refurb cost, but shipping was killer both ways for me...nothing was close to Chicago. I then found Patrick in Germany and ordered his replacement Scinnie bass panels, as it was the only option I had. The package arrived and sat on my desk for a couple months. We had a fire at work (I work in an oil refinery) and we had to rebuild an entire processing unit, that took me out of commission for another 7 months (14 - 16 hour days, and only 7 days off in those 7 months...not fun). After all that I was flush with cash (I actually had no time to spend) and ready to start this project, but came across a local pair of Maggie MG20.1, and again, project was on hold. I pretty much had forgotten about the Scinnies in the backroom....

Anyway, after a couple years went by, I decided to put the whole shebang - Scinnie project up for sale, including the replacement panels (unopened and still in box). Here is where the biggest ahole named Glen contacted me about the sale as he indicated he was looking for a pair of 1 ohm Scinnies to refurb at a Graz installer...he threw out a ridiculous offer including shipping that would not even cover shipping from Chicago to Texas. And he had to have Patrick's replacement panels so he could "throw them away", I asked him if sale could proceed without Patrick's panels and he said no, they "must be thrown away".

It then occurred he most likely was not interested in the Scinnies, but just had to teach me a lesson, he had to put me straight about my purchase decision.

I have no qualms with Graz as I have discussed replacement tweeters for these and other Apogees in the past (a nice guy). He is protective of his livelihood like all of us are, and that is commendable.

But the vitriol over all this is quite disturbing, and really brings out the worst in some people....
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Old 1st March 2021, 02:38 AM   #25
Davey is offline Davey  United States
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You might consider the irony.....and that your anecdote regarding "Glen" is a perfect example of why this topic/situation has become tribal, hostile and full of vitriol.
If you were in Patrick's shoes and heard about something like this, how would you feel???

It's an interesting story and one I hadn't heard before.

Dave.
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Old 1st March 2021, 03:16 AM   #26
artm is offline artm  United States
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"Glen", right! I'd love to know more and see who this Glen character is. I'd bet it was someone asked to do this so Patrick's product would not be used and, perhaps, even used well.

Scintillas, even the 1+4 version, can fetch $1000 and require a rebuild. This buyer was an ahole if he offered a couple hundred (from the looks of it).

If you do decide to replace the panels yourself, try Florian at Clarisys Audio for parts:

Clarisys Audio Switzerland

I believe his quality is much better than Patrick's and he probably knows more about Apogees.
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Old 1st March 2021, 03:23 AM   #27
john65b is offline john65b  United States
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Direct from the Ahole:

As a long-time member of the Apogee forum, and owner of several different Apogees, I have noticed your interest and probable purchase of several of the larger Apogees - FRs and Grand series .... Congrats if you succeeded and still own them! Apogees are the best!

Re your Scintilla message below, I am unsure what your intention/offer is - and what the tons of money was spent on. Some details would be appreciated - both for that and your asking price, please. Thanks.

Regarding the bass panels - there are no equals to genuine Apogee Acoustics (Graz's) parts anywhere or from anyone. The German operation was pirated and the installer involved has apologized to Apogee Acoustics and Graeme, left that partnership and ceased working against Apogee Acoustics' interests and quality controls - leaving a problem behind:

Neither I nor any knowledgeable owner of refurbished Apogees using genuine Apogee Acoustics parts will be interested in the German panels, as there will never be any follow-up and support from the failed partnership: Also, interestingly enough, they are more expensive than the genuine Apogee Acoustic (Graz or Graeme Keete) parts - so it is a lose lose situation all around - and a very serious and permanent problem for re-sale and value.

I am indeed intent to locate a pair of Scintillas as my final reference speaker to keep along with my Ultimate DSig by Rich Murry, but not at the cost of losing the customer support and QC that has kept our beloved speaker alive and singing well into their third decade. I also would repaint to my specs so that is not a plus.

Let me know what you are asking for them, and as a kindness and pricing reference, here is a gloriously documented and fully restored pair that I missed getting from a fellow forum member - they sold for 8K:

Apogee Acoustics Scintilla loudspeakers! *PRICE REDUCED! For Sale - US Audio M

I am still interested enough to hear your asking price John, and if it is a little high IMHO I might consider a partial trade for my Kronzilla amps - which are exquisite with Apogees:

REDUCED! KR Kronzilla DX MkII 100 wpc SET amps w/Pelican cases REDUCED! For Sa

I hope that you do respond a with your details and price, as I'd love to make a deal with you and save you from installing those bass panels, John. I fear that they will cost you value and wasted effort both - and will be un-sellable on the Forum, for sure.

Thank you for the tantilizing email: I look forward to your reply. BTW do your Scintillas have boxes/crates? And where in the US are you located, please? (I am used to shipping Apogees here to Texas).

Regards
Glen
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Old 1st March 2021, 06:08 AM   #28
artm is offline artm  United States
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Tracked him down:

Apogee Acoustics • View topic - Getting my Duetta Signature Grazified!!!

Username is Shibui in the Apogee forums.

Occupation in the old forum bio was: Hot Shot Driver/Yacht Captain.

Yep, that says it all...

Last edited by artm; 1st March 2021 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 1st March 2021, 10:02 AM   #29
john65b is offline john65b  United States
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No comment (...but nice job Columbo!!)
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