Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Planars & Exotics ESL's, planars, and alternative technologies

looking for metalized mylar for planar headphones and tweeters
looking for metalized mylar for planar headphones and tweeters
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 6th January 2019, 05:06 PM   #1
Tjj226 is offline Tjj226
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default looking for metalized mylar for planar headphones and tweeters

Hello all.

I am looking for a source of aluminized mylar. One of my diaphragms on my HE-500s tore itself to shreds for what ever reason, and I am trying to make my own replacement drivers.

In the process of researching the steps needed to make my own headphone drivers, I also quickly learned that the process for making my own tweeters wasn't too different.

I have access to a ton of CNC machines to make the drivers, but I just can't seem to find a US based source of aluminized mylar.

I used a micrometer on the left over driver material from my headphones and found out that HE500 drivers are using mylar that is 1 mil thick with a layer of aluminum that is also 1 mil thick.

The metalized mylar I am currently finding only has a very thin layer of aluminum at around 40nm.

I have found suppliers in other countries, but I would hate to spend 80 bucks in shipping just to buy a 20 dollar roll of mylar.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2019, 01:23 AM   #2
stokessd is offline stokessd  United States
diyAudio Member
 
stokessd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Grantham, NH
I have a BUNCH of 1/2 mil metalized mylar at work. I think the metallization layer is about 30nm. I'll be glad to spool you off a bit. The stuff I have is 24" wide.

Or you can get it from our source: Flagship Converters Inc. | Superior Coated and Laminated Film Services

The stuff is like $2 a pound. I bought 1000' of it with some custom slitting for like $75.

The real problem is that it's really hard to find films thinner than 1/2mil at normal converters. You need films for the capacitor industry to get thinner.

The reason you find lots of thin coatings like the 40nm you quote is that these places are making metalized mylar for balloons and confetti, and as soon as it looks silver they stop. If you hold these films up to the light, you'll find that they are not completely opaque.

Hope that helps,
Sheldon
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2019, 02:17 AM   #3
alexberg is offline alexberg
diyAudio Member
 
alexberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Try to disassemble old PET capacitor of large size. It well might have width substantial enough.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2019, 05:44 PM   #4
Tjj226 is offline Tjj226
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokessd View Post
I have a BUNCH of 1/2 mil metalized mylar at work. I think the metallization layer is about 30nm. I'll be glad to spool you off a bit. The stuff I have is 24" wide.

Or you can get it from our source: Flagship Converters Inc. | Superior Coated and Laminated Film Services

The stuff is like $2 a pound. I bought 1000' of it with some custom slitting for like $75.

The real problem is that it's really hard to find films thinner than 1/2mil at normal converters. You need films for the capacitor industry to get thinner.

The reason you find lots of thin coatings like the 40nm you quote is that these places are making metalized mylar for balloons and confetti, and as soon as it looks silver they stop. If you hold these films up to the light, you'll find that they are not completely opaque.

Hope that helps,
Sheldon

Thank you. I may end up taking you up on that offer just to give it a shot and see what happens.

I just called a bunch of places asking them for a thick metalization layer on mylar and they all acted like I was crazy. Not a good sign for sure lol.

We have a member here who rolls his own membrane by sticking self adhesive foil onto mylar, but I can't find self adhesive sheets of aluminum.

I have found tons of aluminum tape, but nothing wider than about 4 ish inches.

So what I am looking at is getting mylar, adhesive foil, and then aluminum foil and sandwiching it all together in hopes that I get something useful.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2019, 07:39 AM   #5
RogerGustavsson is offline RogerGustavsson  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Huskvarna
As far as I know, vaporized aluminium on polyester is always a very thin layer of aluminium. Laminated films, polyester/glue/aluminiuml, have a thicker layer of aluminium. Common seems to be 12Ám polyester, 2-4 Ám glue and 9Ám aluminium. Eminent Technology use a similar laminate.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2019, 08:43 AM   #6
RogerGustavsson is offline RogerGustavsson  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Huskvarna
Found a supplier of 25/23 mil, Aluminium Polyester Laminates | Flexible Films

http://www.ukinsulations.co.uk/pdfs/...ster-25-23.pdf
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2019, 04:51 PM   #7
gentlevoice is offline gentlevoice  Denmark
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Denmark
looking for metalized mylar for planar headphones and tweeters
Hi ... if what you call "HE-500" is the Hifiman HE-500 I think its thickness is much less than just one mil. One mil is 25.4 microns and my guess would be that the HE-500 is 3-6 microns so another guess would be that you will experience quite some audible difference between the original membrane and a copy with just slight differences in thickness and/or design ...

In any case - best of luck with your repair.

Best regards,

Jesper M
__________________
"... It is always possible to be friendly ..." HH the Dalai Lama.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2019, 05:14 PM   #8
Tjj226 is offline Tjj226
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlevoice View Post
Hi ... if what you call "HE-500" is the Hifiman HE-500 I think its thickness is much less than just one mil. One mil is 25.4 microns and my guess would be that the HE-500 is 3-6 microns so another guess would be that you will experience quite some audible difference between the original membrane and a copy with just slight differences in thickness and/or design ...

In any case - best of luck with your repair.

Best regards,

Jesper M
Hello. Yes, I am talking about hifiman HE-500s.

When I first set out on this project, I thought the exact same thing you did. But I can assure you that the membrane is actually quite thick.

And whats really kind of weird is that hifiman actually has this really think paper backing on the mylar that happens to be another mil thick. The paper backing has a hole cut in the middle of the diaphragm that is about the size of a quarter. It seems like they actually used this paper to vary the thickness of the diaphragm in the middle of the driver.

I have no clue what that is about.

I have used a micrometer to measure the membrane to figure out its various components. There is 1 mil of mylar, 1 mil of aluminum. and believe or not, there is a 1 mil thick layer of this tissue paper

-----------

What I am planing on doing is making a repair diaphragm that is similar to the stock HE-500 diaphragms. Once that is behind me, I will then go on to make my own custom pair of headphones with thinner membrane and stronger magnets.

Truth be told I think the ultimate goal would be to have a 1 sided magnet array for the headphones so that you don't have to have a second array between the membrane and your ears.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2019, 06:28 AM   #9
gentlevoice is offline gentlevoice  Denmark
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Denmark
looking for metalized mylar for planar headphones and tweeters
Hi again ...

Quote:
The paper backing has a hole cut in the middle of the diaphragm that is about the size of a quarter.
Yes, that is interesting ... I've noticed that some of the planar magnetic / electrostatic headphone manufacturers (STAX in their SR-009 and hifiman in the HE-1000) have these center cut-outs in the frame structure on both sides of the membrane - however, I don't exactly know what it is supposed to do except that it may add structural strength and prevent the center assembly point for the support bars coming from the sides of the headphone structure to meet at a larger point in the middle of the headphone ...

Quote:
Truth be told I think the ultimate goal would be to have a 1 sided magnet array for the headphones so that you don't have to have a second array between the membrane and your ears.
Hmmm ... Are you familiar with the FEMM 4.2 magnetic simulation software? It is free to use and in my simulations one of the advantages of a double-sided magnetic structure is that the magnetic field where the membrane is located becomes (much) more even. I.e. a double sided structure may have a (much) lower distortion level. You may of course use a different magnetic structure but if a symmetrical (traditional) double-sided structure is used this may likely be the case.

Hifiman - to my memory in their HE-1000 - uses an asymmetrical structure with main magnets on one sided and then - I assume - magnet field balancing magnets on the other side.

The thickness of the membrane puzzles me ... The open air resonance frequency of a 1 um mylar membrane to my memory is 95-97 kHz and it scales linearly with thickness, thus ~48 kHz for a 2 um thickness etc.

If you are interested in reading more about the higher frequency response of a stator/magnetic array assembly there's more on this subject in this paper (see post 10):

Superb article on HF ESL phenomena (IMHO)

Cheers,

Jesper
__________________
"... It is always possible to be friendly ..." HH the Dalai Lama.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2019, 04:59 PM   #10
lowmass is offline lowmass  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
The thickness sound about right to me. I have no experience with your phones but I can tell you that thickness and the mass that goes with it will go a long way to getting deeper bass and a flatter high freq response from such a design. You can try much thinner diaphragms BUT they will likely sound lean by comparison and need EQ to flatten AND they will be lower sensitivity.

If that "paper" is actually attached to the membrane, then its likely part of the diaphragm damping , and part of the hi frequency response equalization. It may be a way to flatten the higher frequency response AND damp some lower frequency standing wave activity.

Also you likely wont get better sound by removing the magnets on the ear side. The structure is a low freq damper from its acoustic resistance AND the lower magnet field strength and less uniform magnet field that will result will all be a negative.

IF the carryer is really 1 mill then I recommend you buy some 1 mill Kapton tape with ether silicone or acrylic adhesive and use heavy duty foil from the grocery store
  Reply With Quote

Reply


looking for metalized mylar for planar headphones and tweetersHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DIY planar magnetic headphones rgonzale Planars & Exotics 1 18th November 2018 09:50 PM
FS: Peerless XLS 10 830452, Monsoon Planar Dipole Tweeters, HiVi SD1.1A Tweeters bmwparts Swap Meet 1 13th January 2018 07:32 PM
Diy planar headphones in details Garuspik Headphone Systems 12 14th April 2017 03:42 PM
DIY planar using aluminized mylar Gustava Planars & Exotics 34 30th July 2013 12:27 AM
Use of pre-metalized mylar willyCJ Planars & Exotics 4 19th June 2007 09:11 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:45 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.00%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki