piega factory tour video

[Few]

I was looking for planar magnetic design inspiration, particularly on the concentrically mounted tweeter front, and recalled that a Swiss company (Piega) makes such devices. It turns out Piega has a factory tour video on YouTube. It's unusually focused on the details of hand-constructing the drivers. I found it interesting and so I thought one--or maybe even two!--other people might also. Here's the link.

If that video is of interest, you might also check out this related video, posted by AV Connection. A bit different flavor, covering more than just the planar magnetic drivers, but also interesting.

Few

 

[lowmass]

Nice job they do there. Looks like some quality work. I was actually most interested in the thin, damped cabinet construction.

I would take a bit of salt with the 125 Khz response statements as well as the "very thin foil".
These are more likely a heavyer "thicker" foil design, probably .0007-.001 " thick foils.
Thats not a bad thing at all. Its all in the balancing of various details to get it right.

 

[stokessd]

I love the fixtures they have designed. I have a soft spot for alignment and manufacturing fixtures, and those did not disappoint.

Did you notice that they said the glue takes 48 hours to cure and they had about a dozen fixtures? So they are making like 6 mid-tweeters a day. Unless there are a whole lot more fixtures hiding somewhere else.

 

[Few]

I came across a similar sequence for Raidho after posting. I find it very interesting and educational to see what the pros do. Often far closer to the amateurs than I expect, but then again, precision and repeatability where it really matters. Glad I wasn’t the only one who found something of interest in the Piega story.

Few

 

[lowmass]

Yep

Often even mor interesting than the product is "how its made"

 

[WrineX]

love the down to earth hiking boots and such just a really practical guy although dont let appearance fool you he is still rather good in marketing. although there is much more truth in what this man says then normally when you get a tour


they do some interesting stuff. it has been a while i watched this clip, so nice gone enjoy it once more !

 

[WrineX]

one thing there ribbon does look to have a polymide backing, so not actually a true ribbon at least not pure alu ribbon? it is more a planar without the sides mounted and corugated

but i cant see it clearly anyone knows ?



never mind it is showed later on its actually a planarmagnetic speaker with a seperate tweeter in the middle. neat design, not actually a true ribbon but still very cool. and no expense spared on those magnets... overkill ?? also i wonder how low impedance these drivers form since tracks are incredible wide

 

[Few]

I’m pretty confident, from the various photos I’ve seen, that they’re planars rather than pure/simple ribbons. The same is true of the Raidho “ribbon.” I guess the word ribbon must carry so must panache that the word gets applied even where it doesn’t fit.

I was surprised to see Raidho heat-shrinks their tweeter to remove the wrinkles. I would have thought that would mean the diaphragm material would be unhappy with a hot conductor trace but apparently it works.

Few

 

[WrineX]

I’m pretty confident, from the various photos I’ve seen, that they’re planars rather than pure/simple ribbons. The same is true of the Raidho “ribbon.” I guess the word ribbon must carry so must panache that the word gets applied even where it doesn’t fit.

I was surprised to see Raidho heat-shrinks their tweeter to remove the wrinkles. I would have thought that would mean the diaphragm material would be unhappy with a hot conductor trace but apparently it works.

Few

I tried that once heatshrinking... but problem is it wont shrink where the conductors are. you will end up with a wrinkly mess. maybe they only heat treat outside the conductor part ?

 

[Few]

Here’s the first of a series of factory tour videos for Raidho. Number 2 in the series shows the “ribbon” tweeter construction.

Few

 

[WrineX]

I’m pretty confident, from the various photos I’ve seen, that they’re planars rather than pure/simple ribbons. The same is true of the Raidho “ribbon.” I guess the word ribbon must carry so must panache that the word gets applied even where it doesn’t fit.

I was surprised to see Raidho heat-shrinks their tweeter to remove the wrinkles. I would have thought that would mean the diaphragm material would be unhappy with a hot conductor trace but apparently it works.

Few

looked at those Raidho tweeters.. indeed planars magnetics although driven by 2 huge mangets from the sides. it still has a backpole piece. in the tour video they dont even strech the foil. i can see wrinkles from here. what they also not show is the connections made to the outside world i guess a screw installed. but the weird thing is they attach felt ove rthe contact point before it has made contact to the outside somehow so either the conductive sides are on the inside when they laydown the foil. and it touches 2 probes that go trough the body.. weird weird weird. i wonder what the wigling of the conductors bring. might try that out of curiosity.




EDIT yes the contact point are already in the frame, i guess he put 2 drops of conductive silver glue on top of them before glueing in the membrane. thats a rather nifty easy solution.. not so sure how stable it is.

 

[WrineX]

that Raidho must be one of the simplest designs to be honest hmm i im all fired up. not to make the same but it gives some inspiration

 

[WrineX]

actually i had a brain fart, is a complete normally SINGLE ended planar magnetic. i already wondered why the backpole piece was there but what they dont show it actually used 3 magnets thats why it has a single coil on the foil. jesus so easy... its the same as i made multiple times just being way much more bigger in terms of magnets used, also the inner coil is running on top of the magnet with hardly any room in between the coil that goes up compared to the one goes down.. so that part is actually not doing much since it is sitting in sort of on the null of the magnet.... i do wonder what the huge magnets bring in cavity resonances. but that might eb fixed because they use such a huge gap in between magnets. and i think they stuff it between the magnets (tahts why he is picking threads from the felt at the start)

 

[Few]

I haven’t yet figured out the Raidho tweeter magnet structure. Is there a central magnet in addition to the two along the edges?

Also, I know they switched to the serpentine conductor pattern in version 2 of their tweeter, to break up standing waves. There’s a lot of conductor running parallel to the magnetic field lines and doing nothing as a result. I can’t help feeling they could break up the standing waves while sticking with the straight conductors, but they claim they hear an improvement with the zig-zag conductors.

 

[lowmass]

Their "ribbon" shows how detailed refinement is more important than fundamental design in such cases.

So Heres what likely going on...

1- WrineX wonders about heating diaphragm results in a wrinkled mess

Not with a wiggly trace . Yes if you use a straight trace then the foil will cause a problem in that it wont shrink along its length well and can cause a mess. BUT make it wiggy and it will allow a uniform shrink of diaphragm in all directions. Sort of like a spring closing up. Its not perfect BUT if individual traces are not too wide it works.

BTW the claim "it breaks up standing waves", well maybe some maybe , BUT I would guess that design is even more useful to them for assembly / construction reasons. ie no need to tension in a jig. Just apply and heat. This is a BIG time and consistency issue for a manufacture.

Apogee also tryed the zig zag in their MRT and the Stage bass diaphragm has a sort of varied width trace not a wiggle but) . I have tried it a number of times over the years in various configs. Perhaps Ive missed it BUT I didnt find it to cure any resonance issues. At least when all other parameters were right.

2- Questions about magnet configuration. Its simply one side of a typical 3 magnet planer. North/south/north. Nothing new here

3- questions about " center traces not doing anything" Thats MUCH less tru in a design where the magnets are spread out more than normal AND (this is very important) the diaphragm is VERY close to magnets. Yes in these arraignments the mag field is more round and not as flat and straight as say a tru ribbon magnet arraignment, BUT if you put the diaphragm really close to magnets the field is much flatter and aligned with plane of diaphragm . In the case of a tweeter that doesn't have to move far you can get away with this.

BTW this too is likley a higher mass design. Well much higher than say a RAAL. As Ive said before thats not a bad thing at all. Its all in the execution. Getting everything well balanced.

 

[WrineX]

Their "ribbon" shows how detailed refinement is more important than fundamental design in such cases.

So Heres what likely going on...

1- WrineX wonders about heating diaphragm results in a wrinkled mess

Not with a wiggly trace . Yes if you use a straight trace then the foil will cause a problem in that it wont shrink along its length and cause a mess. BUT make it wiggy and it will allow a uniform shrink of diaphragm in all directions. Sort of like a spring closing up. Its not perfect BUT if individual traces are not too wide it works.

BTW the claim "it breaks up standing waves", well maybe some maybe , BUT I would guess that design is even more useful to them for assembly / construction reasons. ie no need to tension in a jig. Just apply and heat. This is a BIG time and consistency issue for a manufacture.

2- Questions about magnet configuration. Its simply one side of a typical 3 magnet planer. North/south/north. Nothing new here

3- questions about " center traces not doing anything" Thats MUCH less tru in a design where the magnets are spread out more than normal AND (this is very important) the diaphragm is VERY close to magnets. Yes in these arraignments the mag field is more round and not as flat and straight as say a tru ribbon magnet arraignment, BUT if you put the diaphragm really close to magnets the field is much flatter and aligned with plane of diaphragm . In the case of a tweeter that doesn't have to move far you can get away with this.

BTW this too is likley a higher mass design. Well much higher than say a RAAL. As Ive said before thats not a bad thing at all. Its all in the execution. Getting everything well balanced.

about the wrinkling i said i might work well with wiggly ones but just before i wanted to draw a few ....... a whatever offset they have lets say 30 degree.. is not beneficial to the distortion or movement in general. just pull out a left hand rule and you discover some of the movement will Be sideways. and yeah i agree i thin they chose this setup purely because of fabrication methods being easy. but they WONT STOP CALLING IT RIBBON

YouTube
YouTube
YouTube

 

[WrineX]

Here is a post i made on facebook since i have to laugh about prices and bullcrap.

I remain flabbergasted.....

Here a nice speaker really, i do like them

YouTube

But then again. i looked up the tweeter.... and im not sure if you remember the tweeter i made for my mini monitors. They actually work exactly the same ! except that theres is more designed for build efficiency using bigger magnets compared to more smaller magnets. i modeled both just for fun. and to my surprise, there field is bigger but not by all that much. well all good they make nice speakers and not forget they make everything there self. witch is really really nice.

I thought lets see what they cost ? well only 23000 euro. not even sure if that is for the pair.. i do hope so

If you look at part 2 of this series they make the tweeter. but for god sake STOP CALLING IT A RIBBON. just like piega and some others they wont stop calling it a ribbon while it is clearly a planar magnetic and in this case it is even a single ended planar magnetic.. STOP IT

YouTube
YouTube
YouTube

DID I MENTION RIBBON TWEETER >?

Here last step just stretch it by heat gun

YouTube

Note the evenly stretched. well either there metal discolored there or the foil is NOT evenly stretched. The 2 DOTS remain. other thing it might be it did stretch and the wobble thing interferes with the front mesh. like a striped suit on old television. but it does mean in this case it stretched unevenly at some spot the conductors are closer together then ot places and it makes this visual interference with the mash.

and the AV dude please dont get so excited. it sometimes during the series feels like he actually just want to drop his pants down and do his thing....... at the same time it is quite clear he has the same brand at home hehe funny

its small things like

https://youtu.be/bsjx3YWP6CY?t=257
These magical drivers..... and the PTSS sound... argh

OR
https://youtu.be/bsjx3YWP6CY?t=172
AAAH yeah got it,

OR
https://youtu.be/bsjx3YWP6CY?t=212
its got a sticky backing!!!!hmmm yeah..

OR

https://youtu.be/bsjx3YWP6CY?t=359

AAh the smell of soldering Hmmm.. aaah yeah hesgetting it hmm...

reminds me of the dude in
office space

The 70 soft porn music is not helping either

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsLUidiYm0w

just my 2 cents

 

[lowmass]

Ha so tru WrineX

your diy planer tweeters are just as capable if all things well done and balanced. AND for a fraction of the $ !!

Its nice equipment and they gota payroll to deal with BUT the prices on some of this stuff is scary

 

[lowmass]

BTW does anyone know the crossover point on this little monitor??

 

[WrineX]

BTW does anyone know the crossover point on this little monitor??

we might be able to see in one of these videos let me check


i presume above 2khz