Hello all,
I want to integrate DIY dipole woofers ( as stands : as the Gradient SW-57 ) with my OTA Quad ESL57s.
I have searched the web for finished projects / important info ; the info I have found is going in all different directions. Everything from complete kits on dipole woofers with plate amps ( that is quite expensive ) to people staying that Quad ESl57 are extremely difficult to integrate with subwoofers.
I use today a Quad 44 and Quad II ( with new MEM ) monoblocks.
I have Decca super tweeters on hand.
Anyone out there that have success in integrating Quad ESL57s with dipole woofers? Any interesting finds? Info to share?
Found: Gradient use a cutoff frequency at 100 Hz
miniDSP correct way to go?
What woofers to use? Eminence Alpha 15a way cheaper than AE dipoles
Important to find a woofer that does not need eq boost...?
My questions are so many; I am crossing fingers for good response here...
Thanks!
I want to integrate DIY dipole woofers ( as stands : as the Gradient SW-57 ) with my OTA Quad ESL57s.
I have searched the web for finished projects / important info ; the info I have found is going in all different directions. Everything from complete kits on dipole woofers with plate amps ( that is quite expensive ) to people staying that Quad ESl57 are extremely difficult to integrate with subwoofers.
I use today a Quad 44 and Quad II ( with new MEM ) monoblocks.
I have Decca super tweeters on hand.
Anyone out there that have success in integrating Quad ESL57s with dipole woofers? Any interesting finds? Info to share?
Found: Gradient use a cutoff frequency at 100 Hz
miniDSP correct way to go?
What woofers to use? Eminence Alpha 15a way cheaper than AE dipoles
Important to find a woofer that does not need eq boost...?
My questions are so many; I am crossing fingers for good response here...
Thanks!
I did build the great DIY speaker LX521 a few years ago.
(See LX521.4 Reference loudspeaker for details, lots of useful stuff on the web page)
Have done some early experiments, using the dipole woofer part as stands to my ESL57s (rotated 90 degrees, thus longest side facing the floor) with very good results.
The two woofers/channel are SEAS L26RO4Y, D1004-04, Aluminum cone
and Push-pull mounted in V-frame dipole baffle of 24"H x 13"W x 15"D
I'm using 4x200 W to drive the 4 woofers.
Using the Linkwitz-designed crossover to the dipole bass box (unchanged so far) and the ESL 57s pass through a 120 Hz High Pass filter, 24 dB/octave (small mod to existing crossover ("ASP")in my case, but even simpler with a MiniDSP solution).
A bridge over the woofer box can be built to isolate the ESL57 from woofer cabinet vibrations (moves around quite a bit)
The result is very seamless, and definitely so much better than trying sealed or bass reflex enclosure integration.
If you find this interesting , there is information on build plans (I think the LXsub build plans will cover what you need, then choose if you want to build an analog cross-over or use DSP technology ... it is all on linkwitzlab.com.
/Mats
(See LX521.4 Reference loudspeaker for details, lots of useful stuff on the web page)
Have done some early experiments, using the dipole woofer part as stands to my ESL57s (rotated 90 degrees, thus longest side facing the floor) with very good results.
The two woofers/channel are SEAS L26RO4Y, D1004-04, Aluminum cone
and Push-pull mounted in V-frame dipole baffle of 24"H x 13"W x 15"D
I'm using 4x200 W to drive the 4 woofers.
Using the Linkwitz-designed crossover to the dipole bass box (unchanged so far) and the ESL 57s pass through a 120 Hz High Pass filter, 24 dB/octave (small mod to existing crossover ("ASP")in my case, but even simpler with a MiniDSP solution).
A bridge over the woofer box can be built to isolate the ESL57 from woofer cabinet vibrations (moves around quite a bit)
The result is very seamless, and definitely so much better than trying sealed or bass reflex enclosure integration.
If you find this interesting , there is information on build plans (I think the LXsub build plans will cover what you need, then choose if you want to build an analog cross-over or use DSP technology ... it is all on linkwitzlab.com.
/Mats
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I can't think of any "match" that can't work fine, esp. adding any kind of good sub. I say this with 40 years experience with ESLs. (Best "match" is a Klipschorn but lacks lowest bass.)
Not worth any prior contemplation except maybe to ensure the passbands overlap. But as as much as you can't do any useful planning ahead of room trials, you sure better have control after installation because you will certainly need it.
miniDSP is used by many. But my favourite is a stand-alone Behringer DCX2496. Does everything you could possibly ask of it.
I built a giant OB sub. Worked OK, I think the sound of dipole mids and tweeters is superior; good subs have no personality... and if they do, they aren't good subs. But not much that's beneficial about a dipole sub (except it has lower tuning than when enclosed) and hard to combat low freq cancellation.
BTW, a sure road to unhappiness is to enhance either the bass or the treble alone. Balance really does matter.
B.
Not worth any prior contemplation except maybe to ensure the passbands overlap. But as as much as you can't do any useful planning ahead of room trials, you sure better have control after installation because you will certainly need it.
miniDSP is used by many. But my favourite is a stand-alone Behringer DCX2496. Does everything you could possibly ask of it.
I built a giant OB sub. Worked OK, I think the sound of dipole mids and tweeters is superior; good subs have no personality... and if they do, they aren't good subs. But not much that's beneficial about a dipole sub (except it has lower tuning than when enclosed) and hard to combat low freq cancellation.
BTW, a sure road to unhappiness is to enhance either the bass or the treble alone. Balance really does matter.
B.
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So many options and so many limits on time and budget. H Frame is the name of the game, but I would go with 18" versions that Martin King developed. Those are low mass low excursion drivers that don't shake up the H frame as a smaller high excursion driver will and the added benefit of a lot of surface area to make convincing bass. Or if you want to go whole hog (and who doesn't) you can make 4 and strap the pairs together to make an H Frame Slot Loaded design. Are we having fun yet 
ESL-57
panel dimensions 34"x 28"
One users in room response 30cm, 100cm and 300cm:
but
One solution:
Mount ESL57 on stands allowing mid panel height to be at ear height for best panel sound and conveniently making space for two 15" H-frames each with one AE 15" IB woofers resting on the floor for gain while entirely decoupled from the ESL panels.
Clearly some fairly aggressive equalising will be needed. Digital crossover allows ease of finding the best crossover point. Some may like the crossover around 120Hz for midrange purity but others may want it twice that for a full and weighty sound.
Besides getting bass a big advantage is being able to unload bass from the ESLs and allow them to sing louder with less noise.
panel dimensions 34"x 28"
One users in room response 30cm, 100cm and 300cm:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
but
One solution:
Mount ESL57 on stands allowing mid panel height to be at ear height for best panel sound and conveniently making space for two 15" H-frames each with one AE 15" IB woofers resting on the floor for gain while entirely decoupled from the ESL panels.
Clearly some fairly aggressive equalising will be needed. Digital crossover allows ease of finding the best crossover point. Some may like the crossover around 120Hz for midrange purity but others may want it twice that for a full and weighty sound.
Besides getting bass a big advantage is being able to unload bass from the ESLs and allow them to sing louder with less noise.
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