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Stacked ESL63 - options, 2912 alternative
Stacked ESL63 - options, 2912 alternative
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Old 24th December 2017, 10:34 AM   #1
jzagaja is offline jzagaja  Poland
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Stacked ESL63 - options, 2912 alternative
Default Stacked ESL63 - options, 2912 alternative

Classic stacked ESL63 is in L arrangement both connected in phase.

Are there other options like out of phase (bipole) one behind another?
Have you tried other? A cheaper 2912 alternative (transformer can be bought)
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Old 26th December 2017, 02:59 AM   #2
Atom666 is offline Atom666  Canada
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How to Stack ESL-63's by Hey You
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Old 18th March 2018, 09:12 AM   #3
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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Stacked ESL63 - options, 2912 alternative
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atom666;5287751[url=http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/tweaks/quad/hey_you/stacking.html
How to Stack ESL-63's by Hey You[/url]
Interesting. But at heart a Quad on pituitary hormone.

But I have a few dozen old Dayton-Wright cells that might make a great wall of sound, or at least that's a day-dream I have for them.

The previous post describes bigger stand-alone panels. No doubt the sound is spectacular. But wouldn't it make for a better "virtual reality" reproduction to have the panels spread more horizontally, home decor permitting? There's no vertical sound parameter in HiFi* and so making the panels tall may not be as beneficial as making them wide.

So I've been wondering - for several decades - how to wire the wall of panels. For sure, with say, 20 panels you don't need to create a centre channel because you can just use ordinary unmixed L and R signals to the panels but mixed in which panels get L or R. That way you only need two amps and no mixed centre channel.... I'd guess.

B.
*which is one of the many ways HiFi can't pose as good virtual reality.
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Old 18th March 2018, 09:25 AM   #4
jzagaja is offline jzagaja  Poland
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Stacked ESL63 - options, 2912 alternative
Recent AES papers on ESLs tells you need a line source, max. 60cm wide, from floor to ceiling, >10 segments (delay line), line source for bass and segments for dispersion. When you have bare panels you are free with arrangement. Note that most DIYers make only 1,5m tall wire stators - you need full height. That's why Quad tries this with new ESL-60.
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Old 18th March 2018, 09:59 AM   #5
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jzagaja View Post
Recent AES papers on ESLs tells you need a line source, max. 60cm wide, from floor to ceiling, >10 segments (delay line), line source for bass and segments for dispersion.
You are of course right about the physics of sound propagation. But I think "beaming" is one of those factors you get anxious about when reading textbooks but which are meaningless from the listener's perspective.

Flat FR is what the listener wants to "hear" and FR is mangled by numerous factors between the musician and the listener. Testing with REW and EQ fixes that to the house curve, not just elaborate constructions.

But my comment was about the quality of "virtual reality" and how to fill a room (or at least one seat) with musical enjoyment.

B.
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Old 18th March 2018, 10:26 AM   #6
jzagaja is offline jzagaja  Poland
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Yesterday I was listening 200th Chopin anniversary concert on original copy of Buchholtz piano. Then compared with Zimmermann grand piano performance. I was using Quad ESL63. What a wondefull coherence and timbre. Both f-moll concerts sounded much different. I know them well from live performances. Problem with ESL compared to controlled directivity waveguide - if you sit far side then sound lack high frequencies. With waveguide you can sit far sides but much harder get such a coherence and delicacy. Crossover is tricky.
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Old 18th March 2018, 04:22 PM   #7
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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Reproducing a non-point source like a piano (and a sound most people know well) is harder test than a whole orchestra playing 100 feet away. Basically, can't be done too well even if the sound kind of sounds like a plano playing in the house next door.

Although an ESL gives a great sort-of-piano ambient experience, nobody would say "there's a piano in my room".

B.
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Old 18th March 2018, 04:41 PM   #8
jzagaja is offline jzagaja  Poland
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I go to local philharmony quite often various music and it's great. Our small club/cinema is not much larger than some living rooms so for example a piano was overhelmed by drums and double bass. Studio record was very fine.

See Tubis Trio "The Truth" at e.g. Spotify (youtube is not good)
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Old 21st March 2018, 01:41 AM   #9
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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Off topic: very impressive structure. But odd design for balcony. Chopin, famous French composer.*

Are Quads or other ESLs, single or double, seen much in Poland?

B.
*I came close to getting murdered for making that joke on a Warsaw tour bus.
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Old 21st March 2018, 07:21 AM   #10
jzagaja is offline jzagaja  Poland
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Quote:
Chopin, famous French composer
And Polish too

Quote:
very impressive structure. But odd design for balcony
I was in the balcony listening Grammy Award Wlodek Pawlik "Night in Calisia" and I like these seats. Also was behind orchestra left balcony - bass was enhanced.

Quote:
Are Quads or other ESLs, single or double, seen much in Poland?
Very rare. Quads started my interest in audio 25 years ago but never seen them in Poland. Just bought a year ago and it's my first experience with ESL. Now I see how poor my crosovers were (for horns and waveguides). So I treat them as reference point. Going to add bass panels as an experiment. Also bought valued Anaview AMS100 amp. At Audio Video Show in Warsaw I could check Martin Logan but largest ESL was too bright/nervous on pop music. Nice on short presentation.
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