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How large has my planars to be?
How large has my planars to be?
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Old 4th June 2017, 03:57 AM   #1
miltonx is offline miltonx  China
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Default How large has my planars to be?

I have been planning to diy planar speakers, but cannot decide whether to go hybrid or simply planar, due to room size constraints.

It's for a 4 meters x 5 meters room. I listen to all types of music, always at moderate volume. There is no need for thunder like power or bass beast. I prefer a relatively neutral sound, to be decently workable for pop, jazz, rock, classic.

I'm not demanding a pancake flat SPL. Nor do I care about measurements. So I guess I will just make a full range planar without crossover.

However, I want the bass response to be equivalent to that of an ordinary commercially available 6 ~ 8 inch desktop cone monitor.

Of course I prefer the clarify of pure planar, but I'm not sure in such a small room it is realistic to make one with sufficient size to achieve that. If not, I'd have to go hybrid, with all the crossover and construction complications, hence a less desirable solution.

So here is the question, for pure planar, how large has each panel to be? Say, is 2500 ~ 3000 square cm enough to get that decent 45-50hz? What's your experience with similar sized planars?
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Old 4th June 2017, 07:01 AM   #2
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

welcome to the pleasuresonics
Besides room size, the listening distance and dynamic range matter most.
The larger/wider the panel the more extended is the near field listening range and the larger is the dynamic range.
Listening in the near field isn´t bad for bass performance and ´attack´.
Staging suffers though .... sounds more like a huge headphone.
Say You´re listening distance would be around 2-3m, just outside the nearfield of the planars, then the panels shouldn´t be much higher than 1-1.2m.
For hybrids 20-30cm width will then suffice to achieve a very comfortable dynamic range from ~200-300Hz on
For Fullrangers I´d add a second set of panels just for bass, or size the panels up to ~double the width.
The building effort and cost for a hybrid is higher, but done right it outperforms a FR in every respect.
Admittedly it´s seldomly done right ... and this lead to the common sonic impression that Hybrids always sounded like 2-ways.
On the other hand it´s difficult to achieve a decent bass and a tonal correct lower mids response with a FR.
You´ll never get the precision and power You can achieve with a dynamic bass concept .. and a FR is always prone to lower mids suckout.
Still though many listeners like the soft one-note bass and seamlesness that´s characteristic to most any FRs and accept deficiencies in tonality/amplitude response.

After Your description I assume You´d be better off with a FR concept at first ... and open for possible upgrades at a later stage.
I´d suggest to try a flat wire stator concept, as it is easy to build, its the cheapest building method and it grants a very high chance of success even for newbies as You can profit from the exceptional support of our community here

jauu
Calvin
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Old 4th June 2017, 01:57 PM   #3
anji12305 is offline anji12305  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miltonx View Post
I'm not demanding a pancake flat SPL. Nor do I care about measurements. So I guess I will just make a full range planar without crossover.

However, I want the bass response to be equivalent to that of an ordinary commercially available 6 ~ 8 inch desktop cone monitor.



So here is the question, for pure planar, how large has each panel to be? Say, is 2500 ~ 3000 square cm enough to get that decent 45-50hz? What's your experience with similar sized planars?
The difficulty with larger panels is maintaining tension on the diaphragm, without twisting the frame. The Magneplanar MMG has a good size compromise - reasonable sensitivity without an enormous expanse of mylar.

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Old 17th October 2017, 10:12 PM   #4
JAMESBOS is offline JAMESBOS  England
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Have built over 200 full range planars in sizes from 8" x 12" up to 7' x 2' using neos and ferrites, I have stopped using neos too expensive, have also stopped using mylar as diaphragm material. Too hard to stretch the material I use now does not need stretching. I have simplified the build as well very easy to build. A new diaphragm only costs about £3 to build! Tight bass and easy to drive using 7 watt valve amp to drive my latest pair which are 16" x 16" in size.
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Old 17th October 2017, 10:22 PM   #5
JAMESBOS is offline JAMESBOS  England
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My 2 latest builds using 40 x 20 x 10 mm ferrites.
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Old 17th October 2017, 10:25 PM   #6
JAMESBOS is offline JAMESBOS  England
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My latest full range planar no crossover 6 ohms impedance.
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Old 17th October 2017, 10:27 PM   #7
JAMESBOS is offline JAMESBOS  England
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It's partner.
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Old 17th October 2017, 10:35 PM   #8
JAMESBOS is offline JAMESBOS  England
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This is a smaller one with magnets in position.
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Old 17th October 2017, 10:37 PM   #9
JAMESBOS is offline JAMESBOS  England
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This is 24" x 16" one using neos
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Old 20th October 2017, 11:43 PM   #10
miltonx is offline miltonx  China
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i built a pair of 26cm*106cm planars using rubber magnets,0.012mm mylar and 0.06mm self adhesive alufoil tape. it is much thicker than most prefer, but anything thinner would be too difficult for me to handle and at this time i do not need ultra fine sound definition, so this is acceptable to me.

without any jig to stretch, the film is simply double-side-taped to frame. i tried to play full range. bass pushed the entire film to flap in large excursion in a very floppy, poorly controlled fashion. result is. i SEE a lot of low frequency movement instead of HEARING below 100hz, except the sound of some nasty mid-low resonance.

mid and high is good enough for me. then i decided to cross over at 100~150hz. now mostly there is no mid-low resonance unless the volume is turned above living room music enjoyment level. sorry i have to use this rough description as i have no measurement equipment.

the sound is very beamy. walking away from the panels, it sounds really mediocer, missing the highs and details, almost muffled. but at the sweet spot it is so full-bodied. in contrast to cone speakers, i would describle the mid and high as much more rich, clear and robust.

the cone woofers do not integrate so well, but i guess that is because of my cross over design. even so, i still prefer to have them in there, to provide a little modetate low end.
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