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Apogee Duetta Signature Crossover
Apogee Duetta Signature Crossover
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Old 1st March 2018, 06:53 AM   #21
DAMIC is offline DAMIC  Serbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowmass View Post

I have found that as little as 1/2-1 db here can take it from HiFi to hi class.
True, sometimes on some settings I need corrections of only 1/2 dB, but my old, musically very good xo (two EV Dx34a - below 80Hz are 4 subs) have steps of only 1dB, so it is hard to decide whether the sound is better with + or - 1dB.
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Old 1st March 2018, 07:47 AM   #22
DAMIC is offline DAMIC  Serbia
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Latest measurements with PEQ centr.freq 7KHz, gain -6dB, Q=06, actually very close to previous Q=0,8.

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Old 1st March 2018, 12:46 PM   #23
lowmass is offline lowmass  United States
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Originally Posted by DAMIC View Post
Latest measurements with PEQ centr.freq 7KHz, gain -6dB, Q=06, actually very close to previous Q=0,8.

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Ah excellent your getting close. The 1/2 db thing I mention is really only valid in the mids and treb. Especially in the balance between the mids and treb. Super critical to getting a shockingly believable voice and an area that is easily missed.

With these designs what I have found is that your curve you have now will sound good BUT will lack just a touch of "air" and clarity.The blue line will sound both treeble hot AND treeble weak at same time. It may sound too polite on one recording then sound to forward on the next. I have found that its best to have the response close to the shape and down tilt that you have ( red and green) but with just a little higher output at 10 khz. Looks like your down about 4-5 db at 10k with respect to the region between 1-3 khz. I would make it more like 2-3 db down at 10k and then play with that 10k level in 1/2 db increments.

Also that slight hump around 5khz ( typical problem area for ribbons of this type of construction) may seem like no biggie BUT it can be a bit anoying in extended listen. Often the FR will look ok here BUT the CSD will show some storage here. Might want to play that down just a bit.
Actally Damic are you using DSP to taylor or are you doing it passive ?

Last edited by lowmass; 1st March 2018 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 1st March 2018, 02:50 PM   #24
DAMIC is offline DAMIC  Serbia
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Hi lowmass,

I am doing all active, as mentioned earlier, use two Electro Voice Dx34a (digital dsp and crossover inside).

regards,
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Old 1st March 2018, 03:30 PM   #25
lowmass is offline lowmass  United States
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Originally Posted by DAMIC View Post
Hi lowmass,

I am doing all active, as mentioned earlier, use two Electro Voice Dx34a (digital dsp and crossover inside).

regards,
ok that makes it easyer. yea I would play with the rake down to 10k. try rake of about -3db from 2k to 10k and then play with that.

Then I goto overall level of MRT with respect to bass panel. Play with that up and down

Back and forth till ya get it. These two areas I find to be the most important
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Old 1st March 2018, 05:34 PM   #26
DAMIC is offline DAMIC  Serbia
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Thanks for suggestions.

regards,
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Old 15th September 2018, 01:56 PM   #27
Bill303 is offline Bill303  United States
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Came across this old thread I had started and wanted to make some comments:
I still have the Duetta II's. I did not change the crossover. Recently I tried some room correction using Dirac Live which made a difference in correcting some room flaws.

Recently I installed an electronic crossover, a Marchand XM66. For those not familiar this is a 2 way crossover at 24 db slope and variable frequency. The output goes to a solid state amplifier, for the bass panels, and a tube amplifier for the MRT's. Previously both had been on the solid state amp. I set the crossover at around 500 Hz initially and then gradually went to 440 Hz. This change to an electronic XO was by far the best 'tweak' I have done to any speaker. It especially changed the bass to have more impact. Mid range opened up but, the highs lack some sizzle so I'll be experimenting with that.
For anyone considering going to an electronic crossover for their Apogees I would highly recommend it.
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Old 15th September 2018, 02:31 PM   #28
Davey is offline Davey  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill303 View Post
Came across this old thread I had started and wanted to make some comments:
I still have the Duetta II's. I did not change the crossover. Recently I tried some room correction using Dirac Live which made a difference in correcting some room flaws.

Recently I installed an electronic crossover, a Marchand XM66. For those not familiar this is a 2 way crossover at 24 db slope and variable frequency. The output goes to a solid state amplifier, for the bass panels, and a tube amplifier for the MRT's. Previously both had been on the solid state amp. I set the crossover at around 500 Hz initially and then gradually went to 440 Hz. This change to an electronic XO was by far the best 'tweak' I have done to any speaker. It especially changed the bass to have more impact. Mid range opened up but, the highs lack some sizzle so I'll be experimenting with that.
For anyone considering going to an electronic crossover for their Apogees I would highly recommend it.
The stock crossover is a 2nd-order electrical design and the XM-66 is a 4th-order electrical design. This would necessitate a change in polarity of the MRT relative to the woofer. Did you do that?

Dave.
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Old 15th September 2018, 05:17 PM   #29
Bill303 is offline Bill303  United States
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Hi Dave,
I thought I remembered the stock XO was 4th order so I didn't invert it. I will give that a try and see what changes. It should be as simple as changing the inputs to the MRT amp or the output from the amp to the MRT, right?
Thanks,
Bill
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Old 16th September 2018, 03:19 PM   #30
Davey is offline Davey  United States
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Originally Posted by Bill303 View Post
Hi Dave,
I thought I remembered the stock XO was 4th order so I didn't invert it. I will give that a try and see what changes. It should be as simple as changing the inputs to the MRT amp or the output from the amp to the MRT, right?
Thanks,
Bill
No, the stock crossover was definitely not 4th-order. None of the Apogee models utilized that steep a crossover...AFAIK.

Yes, just flip the cable at the speaker connection to your MRT.
That said, I am making an assumption on the relative polarity of the outputs of your XM-66 crossover. (I'm not positive on that.)
Regardless, flipping the MRT speaker connections one way or the other should yield a better sound in one configuration. That would obviously be the connection to use.

Implementing a 4th-order crossover does change the integration of the MRT/woofer and cause a more abrupt change in polar response. Strictly sound-wise, this is not a preferable change, in my opinion. But, it does have the distinct advantage of easing the load considerably on the MRT driver. Distortion is reduced, and you should no longer notice that driver visibly flopping around.

Dave.
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