Since the silicon treatment is permanent and cannot be undone if misapplied, I would try this first:
Someone else tried the foam weatherstrip with a sticky side taped to the brace and the foam touching the panel. I would try a similar foam strip WITHOUT the sticky side and just press it into the area of the old foam.
Since most of these strips are about 1/2-in to 3/4-in wide, you may need to trim them down a bit.
If this resolves the buzz, the you apply can the silicone to keep the new foam in place against the brace. I wouldn't even do this unless I noticed the foam coming loose. Play them for a while and then inspect. If the foam is still intact, leave it alone.
Someone else tried the foam weatherstrip with a sticky side taped to the brace and the foam touching the panel. I would try a similar foam strip WITHOUT the sticky side and just press it into the area of the old foam.
Since most of these strips are about 1/2-in to 3/4-in wide, you may need to trim them down a bit.
If this resolves the buzz, the you apply can the silicone to keep the new foam in place against the brace. I wouldn't even do this unless I noticed the foam coming loose. Play them for a while and then inspect. If the foam is still intact, leave it alone.
That's a really narrow gap, and if you press something in you have the potential to damage/deform/deflect the transducer. And, you're only able to do this on one (the front) side of the transducer anyways.
The silicone application really is the best (by far) repair treatment you can perform on the speakers.....short of the expensive rebuild procedure.
Dave.
The silicone application really is the best (by far) repair treatment you can perform on the speakers.....short of the expensive rebuild procedure.
Dave.
The Stage is a much easier procedure, of course.
It's more challenging with non-Stage speakers, but still doable. The speaker must propped up on its side (one side, then the other) and well-secured. The application through the perforated magnet plate is tedious and time-intensive, but you will be rewarded in the end.
Dave.
It's more challenging with non-Stage speakers, but still doable. The speaker must propped up on its side (one side, then the other) and well-secured. The application through the perforated magnet plate is tedious and time-intensive, but you will be rewarded in the end.
Dave.
John,
I really appreciate this post... like yourself, I was new owner of a used pair of duetta signature for short time before the hissing and resonance problem began to ruin the honeymoon with these speakers.
I don't have the $$ to have it professionally restore, so I'm eager to try out the foam fix you shared.
You instructions are great, but I'm stuck in the starting line as I look at the back of the speaker, I can't even figure out how to get pass the sock of the speaker and how to get to the foam...
I can't find any screws that how the back and front together...
for those of you who have done this fix already, you must have found the trick...please enlighten me!!
Thanks.
Gerald
I really appreciate this post... like yourself, I was new owner of a used pair of duetta signature for short time before the hissing and resonance problem began to ruin the honeymoon with these speakers.
I don't have the $$ to have it professionally restore, so I'm eager to try out the foam fix you shared.
You instructions are great, but I'm stuck in the starting line as I look at the back of the speaker, I can't even figure out how to get pass the sock of the speaker and how to get to the foam...
I can't find any screws that how the back and front together...
for those of you who have done this fix already, you must have found the trick...please enlighten me!!
Thanks.
Gerald
I may be undertaking this task soon...
1. Has the recipe for this treatment been updated or changed at all?
2. Roughly how much is required for a pair?
3. Should I do one length of foam and then wait for it to dry before flipping over to the next length (both on the same side here, not the backside yet)? Is appears that you guys are not waiting before proceeding to the next length. My fear is that it will drip if I flip but I guess not since noone is reporting this. I plan on freezing any mixture for the next day.
4. If anyone wants to chime in with any other tricks or things to consider please do so.
Thanks for your help. Great thread!
1. Has the recipe for this treatment been updated or changed at all?
2. Roughly how much is required for a pair?
3. Should I do one length of foam and then wait for it to dry before flipping over to the next length (both on the same side here, not the backside yet)? Is appears that you guys are not waiting before proceeding to the next length. My fear is that it will drip if I flip but I guess not since noone is reporting this. I plan on freezing any mixture for the next day.
4. If anyone wants to chime in with any other tricks or things to consider please do so.
Thanks for your help. Great thread!
Hi all, I used silicone mold from illuseffects, which I cut with silicone oil 100cst... this mix can be rendered very flowable, whilst the silicon mold retains good elastic density... it worked pretty good for me, and also the advantage I found is that the silicone mold doesn't stick that much to the apogee alu. panel. So lay edge to be cured horizontal with a little tilt to retain the mix and prevent it flow off the corner edge panel / timber... flow the mix with a syringe, with little overflow, for it to flow inbetwen panel and timber brace to the foam, repeat till it absorbs any more. At least this worked well for me since 2 yrs now.
I am rebuilding a set of Divas and noticed the actual gap or channel where the foam lays in is relatively tight when everything is buttoned up.
The foam used is the light open cell type and compresses down significantly.
I can see why it had a short life under these conditions.
I am in the process of making my own panels and have purchased 1100 soft temper .001” foil and Kapton with adhesive backing.
Time will tell if I can actually pull this off..,.BTW
The question is has anybody used the closed cell foam , usually grey in color with more density along with opening up and angling the gap so there is a progressive compression instead of an equally flat compression of the foil edge ?
I would have to cut the channels deeper because this foam is thicker than the originals
The angles toward the foil edge would then be less than the deeper section.
Your thoughts on this ?
Regards
David
The foam used is the light open cell type and compresses down significantly.
I can see why it had a short life under these conditions.
I am in the process of making my own panels and have purchased 1100 soft temper .001” foil and Kapton with adhesive backing.
Time will tell if I can actually pull this off..,.BTW
The question is has anybody used the closed cell foam , usually grey in color with more density along with opening up and angling the gap so there is a progressive compression instead of an equally flat compression of the foil edge ?
I would have to cut the channels deeper because this foam is thicker than the originals
The angles toward the foil edge would then be less than the deeper section.
Your thoughts on this ?
Regards
David
AVWERK: I would be very interested to hear of your progress on the new panels. Where did you source the foil, kapton? How are you handling the corrugation? I know that was a big issue back when we were discussing it on the Apogee forum. I tracked down some metal "rods" with "teeth", placing two together would make a good corrugator. But, I wasn't serious enough to pursue it.
Possible Modification:
I did have this thought back then on a way to make the panel removable, without gluing it down permanently with silicone. that is, glue a strip of butyl on the left and right sides. Make the butyl go outside the panel by a bit as that bit will then be clamped down on the braces for adjustment. If necessary, you can apply silicone to the butyl-clamp interface. That way you can (more) easily scrape it off the brace if you wish for whatever reason.
I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble. Perhaps it may prevent ruining the panel by mistake, as this method allows for a re-do if you will. Also, as the butyl will act as a damper, perhaps there's less resonance instead of the panel directly adhered to the brace.
Possible Modification:
I did have this thought back then on a way to make the panel removable, without gluing it down permanently with silicone. that is, glue a strip of butyl on the left and right sides. Make the butyl go outside the panel by a bit as that bit will then be clamped down on the braces for adjustment. If necessary, you can apply silicone to the butyl-clamp interface. That way you can (more) easily scrape it off the brace if you wish for whatever reason.
I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble. Perhaps it may prevent ruining the panel by mistake, as this method allows for a re-do if you will. Also, as the butyl will act as a damper, perhaps there's less resonance instead of the panel directly adhered to the brace.
Most of the big houses that sell Kapton want to sell 250 to 500’ rolls at 800$ + so searching
Ebay I found a seller that had .001” adhesive backed Kapton in a smaller quantity.
First on I was able to convince a seller to cut off 16’ of a big roll for 60$ but after testing separate roll on lacquer and water based glues, abandoned the idea for the adhesive backed Kapton in a thinner version. The non backed was a little thicker at .002” also
Granger - is the source for foils either soft temper 1100 aluminum or hard temper.
I purchased 1100 soft .001” foil
DRP - sells anodized corrugated rod in different diameters (offroad linkage rod)
Regards
David
Ebay I found a seller that had .001” adhesive backed Kapton in a smaller quantity.
First on I was able to convince a seller to cut off 16’ of a big roll for 60$ but after testing separate roll on lacquer and water based glues, abandoned the idea for the adhesive backed Kapton in a thinner version. The non backed was a little thicker at .002” also
Granger - is the source for foils either soft temper 1100 aluminum or hard temper.
I purchased 1100 soft .001” foil
DRP - sells anodized corrugated rod in different diameters (offroad linkage rod)
Regards
David
Hello Avwerk. Here's an extract from a forum by Graz, it will reply to most of your above questions:
Graz
Full Member posted January 24, 2008 04:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Graz Click Here to Email Graz Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
This Stage thing is a real irritation. As I have said many times the speaker differs from all the rest of the planar Apogee's in that it doesn't have a lower clamp system at all, it just uses the main speaker back board as it's under-clamp system. And to make matters worse it has no foam rebate on the bottom so the foam lies on the surface of the back board, therefore under greater pressure than the over-clamps that all have a foam rebate. The tuning clamp side just sits on this foam, and is only stuck on the ribbon's top face to the clamp (firmly). The foam on the back board breaks down over time with pressure and vibration until the foam crumbles away under the tuning clamp (out of sight). Then the tuning clamp bonds to the back board effectively short circuiting the tension system, giving it's own version of buzz.
The repair requires;-
1) A new double sided ribbon
2) The speakers' back board be routed to rebate the foam, to ensure a long life
3) The ribbon be installed and tensioned by a person who knows how (installer)
4) Properly aligned magnets
CAN THE RIBBON PARTS BE MADE BY ME? YES.
For an effective perfect repair the magnets should be in perfect order and alignment, unfortunately this was not the case for many Stages. Many had/have their own distortion signatures because of this. This is a worry - as a newly restored speaker is possibly coming under the most serious scrutiny it ever has, and it's "signature distortion" may be heard for the first time by it's third owner that probably never heard it working. Who would get the blame?
Economics - who would be willing to pay for such work and seriously engineered parts, made in 2008 with small production? And who would compare the costs unfavorably to previously supplied bass parts only from a source that obtained a bulk supply for zero costs? Would Bob come back to ditch his last Stage bass parts (if he has any left) in an untimely way to kill off a lasting solution?
Prototyping. I completely understand the Stage problem, but making a ribbon design in kapton would require some prototype work, and that would require some Stages here, without pressure to come up with a production solution in a set time. So far - none have come up within reasonable distance (anywhere in Australia). Exterior options have all been unboxed and would have to be shipped here, import taxes and packing paid for.
And at the end of the day the END CLIENT has to be willing to pay for parts/rework/installation, and there would have to be quite a few that would want to do this - so far I could easily count those serious on one hand! I have been contacted by over 100 people curious about the parts, but all have either managed to contact Bob Dragunas and got some old ribbons, or have decided the task isn't worth the effort or expense. No exceptions. I have tried calling Bob to ask how many panels he has left for months on his home number that he used to answer at all times, and just like all the other numbers!
So that's the position. If anybody hears of dead Stages that I can ever get here, please email me...
Here's the link to the site: Stage Bass Ribbon Foam - AudioWorld's StraightWire Forums
Graz
Full Member posted January 24, 2008 04:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Graz Click Here to Email Graz Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
This Stage thing is a real irritation. As I have said many times the speaker differs from all the rest of the planar Apogee's in that it doesn't have a lower clamp system at all, it just uses the main speaker back board as it's under-clamp system. And to make matters worse it has no foam rebate on the bottom so the foam lies on the surface of the back board, therefore under greater pressure than the over-clamps that all have a foam rebate. The tuning clamp side just sits on this foam, and is only stuck on the ribbon's top face to the clamp (firmly). The foam on the back board breaks down over time with pressure and vibration until the foam crumbles away under the tuning clamp (out of sight). Then the tuning clamp bonds to the back board effectively short circuiting the tension system, giving it's own version of buzz.
The repair requires;-
1) A new double sided ribbon
2) The speakers' back board be routed to rebate the foam, to ensure a long life
3) The ribbon be installed and tensioned by a person who knows how (installer)
4) Properly aligned magnets
CAN THE RIBBON PARTS BE MADE BY ME? YES.
For an effective perfect repair the magnets should be in perfect order and alignment, unfortunately this was not the case for many Stages. Many had/have their own distortion signatures because of this. This is a worry - as a newly restored speaker is possibly coming under the most serious scrutiny it ever has, and it's "signature distortion" may be heard for the first time by it's third owner that probably never heard it working. Who would get the blame?
Economics - who would be willing to pay for such work and seriously engineered parts, made in 2008 with small production? And who would compare the costs unfavorably to previously supplied bass parts only from a source that obtained a bulk supply for zero costs? Would Bob come back to ditch his last Stage bass parts (if he has any left) in an untimely way to kill off a lasting solution?
Prototyping. I completely understand the Stage problem, but making a ribbon design in kapton would require some prototype work, and that would require some Stages here, without pressure to come up with a production solution in a set time. So far - none have come up within reasonable distance (anywhere in Australia). Exterior options have all been unboxed and would have to be shipped here, import taxes and packing paid for.
And at the end of the day the END CLIENT has to be willing to pay for parts/rework/installation, and there would have to be quite a few that would want to do this - so far I could easily count those serious on one hand! I have been contacted by over 100 people curious about the parts, but all have either managed to contact Bob Dragunas and got some old ribbons, or have decided the task isn't worth the effort or expense. No exceptions. I have tried calling Bob to ask how many panels he has left for months on his home number that he used to answer at all times, and just like all the other numbers!
So that's the position. If anybody hears of dead Stages that I can ever get here, please email me...
Here's the link to the site: Stage Bass Ribbon Foam - AudioWorld's StraightWire Forums